What a lovely and strange ending, in all the best ways. I keep thinking about the ending in relation to character arc. Does MQ change? Is he shaped by these events? I feel he remains unshakably himself. I always define, for myself, story as the shaping of a character through a conflict and vice versa. But what about a story where the character remains faithful to his nature through his trials? Is it still a story? Is MQ changed, at his core, in some way by these events? I found myself asking these questions and—acknowledging that this is undeniably a story—having no answer.
My take: For sure, Sancho changed, as evident by that last paragraph - one of the most beautiful endings I have ever read. I feel like MQ changed but in a more subtle way. He came to terms with his doubts about his faith and his misgivings about the church.
Not sure how to agree with two comments, but I definitely agree with both of you that Sancho changes. And maybe MQ does change subtly—I’d hazard a guess that he’d be unlikely to overreact to a blunder like the half-bottle Holy Spirit by the end.
I also agree that Sancho has changed (and this change is still evolving). More than that, he is actually afraid of the love that has taken hold of him. He wonders, "with a kind of fear," if it's possible for this love to continue. And the book ends with a question that seems to trouble Sancho: "And to what end?" Sancho survives to continue a spiritual journey, ideas for him to ponder while in exile in Portugal.
Interesting question. Hope it will come up in the Zoom call. I didn't think about this issue until you raised it, but had noted in my comment that Sancho definitely changes by the end.
This section was so multi-layered that I had to re-read it several times. Yes, there is the interplay between “fact” and fiction, but also between faith and logic, and between human compassion and complex theology. One of my favorite lines is Father Leopold’s, which follows the page-long discussion of Descartes: “Do you think it’s more difficult to turn empty air into wine than wine into blood? Can our limited senses decide a thing like that? We are faced by an infinite mystery.” Even the doubting Sancho is feeling superstitious. And at the end, it seems to me he has been transformed by his friendship with the offspring of a fictional character.
So many quotable lines in this chapter - first and foremost that last paragraph. But here's one folks might have missed: "...in dark corners loom the wooden figures of popes and of the knights whose order founded the monastery. They take on an appearance of life, as sad memories do, when the dark has fallen."
I got behind and have only caught up today, so I didn't post much this time around. But I have read all of your insightful comments - thank you for your careful reads. I love reading with all of you!
MQ’s faith allowed for inevitable doubt but ultimately triumphed and his holiness was not sullied by temptation. The same could not be said for those hate. In that sense, in retrospect, Sanchez has followed MQ’s guiding star and recognizes it at the end.
"...and yet love, the love...seemed now to live and grow in spite of the final separation and the final silence--for how long, he wondered with a kind of fear, was it possible for that love of his to continue? And to what end?" The only other Graham novel I've read is The End of the Affair, which also ends with an enduring friendship, and with more questions than certainty-but with an undeniable inkling of faith. According to wikipedia there are many forms of and theories about divine grace (Divine Grace?) but the one that sticks with me most is that you get it, whether or not you want it or deserve it. I am so so so sorry that I will be traveling on the subway right around 7pm tonite and so will likely miss most or all of the zoom tonite. My heartfelt thanks to you all for your insights and to Brigid Hughes and Yiyun Li for their vision for a living literary community that defies time and space. #APStogether forever! (and which GG novel should I read next????)
Distinguishing fact vs fiction is such a big part of modern life but clearly, there are times where faith overrides both. In its lowest form, it is called confirmation bias.
I have a morbid fear of spoilers and my end-of-semester grading overcame me (forcing me out of this group read) but I look forward to coming back and reading what everyone has said. Sadly, I can't come tonight, either. But cheers and all.
I only pop in to plug the first two novels of William Gerhardie/Gerhardi (1895-1977) a very strange, interesting, mostly forgotten writer that Greene admired a great deal. And whose influence seemed very present in the 60% of Monsignor Quixote I've had a chance to finish. Gerhardie, English but raised in pre-Revolution Russia, wrote the first book in English on Chekhov...and his first two novels in particular, Futility (intro. by Edith Wharton) and The Polyglots were tremendously important to Greene's generation and their weird, wry notion of comedy. Olivia Manning noted that Greene, she, and others--Anthony Powell, too--sprang from Gerhardie as from Gogol's overcoat.
Those two early novels also share the distinction of being the only two out-of-print novels I ever talked anyone into bringing back. Melville House brought them out in their Neversink Library (Futility seems to be available, The Polyglots not?) and I like putting them on people's radar.
Anyhow, I don't mean to prattle on. Just thought I'd leave this here for anyone wanting to delve into how an Englishman born in 1904 assembled his sense of what's funny.
“ I will never leave you, father. We have been on the road together too long for that.”
Seems perfect that the Mayor, Sancho, in post-Franco Spain, hunted by the Guardia, should be the one to state in the last lines that hate may end when a man dies, but love will endure.
And yet, Sancho, shortly thereafter, does leave MQ, if only physically.
Those last lines of Sancho convey the positive impact that MQ had on him. I usually think of literary catalysts as disruptive or larger than life, but with MQ, it was a quiet grace. I've really enjoyed this APS Together read, everyone! I have a writing class tonight so I won't be able to join the Zoom.
Interesting that the novel begins with a quote from Hamlet “There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.” Is this meant to encapsulate the journey the characters as well as we, the readers, have undergone?
Captivated by the nuances of "silence" throughout the novel, and "its" complexity in countering the stasis of "knowing," as well as, complicating the certitude of faith - and freedom. Sancho's interpretation of MQ's silence compellingly captures MQ's "quiet grace" (thank you Terri for your insightful articulation!): "Silence with him is not always a sign of peace. It sometimes means an agony of spirit." The pairing of agony and peace as counterpoints in a journey of faith, and correlative quest for "true" freedom, offers us all a reminder of the poignant power of silence, questioning, and lack of certitude as foundational to the shaping of a society seeking the promise of authentic freedom for all. Pollyanna-ish perhaps, but one can dream.
Thank you Yiyun for your selection of this book and facilitating our discussion through your daily quote selections and insightful comments; I looked forward each morning to reading your selections and thoughtful take aways/musings, which always stretched my own thinking. And, thank you to everyone, for all your thought-provoking insights, questions, connections, interpretations ... I was enriched each day by this profound community of readers, and the daily embrace of intellectual discussion, grounded in openness, inquiry, and willingness to be vulnerable in engaging with the "danger of ideas." A sanctuary indeed! I always feel sad when these slow, collective reads/dialogues comes to an end, but love the "grace" experienced in exploring the power of fiction/non-fiction(?) in community. I look forward to the next APS Together book/discussion (hopefully there will be another soon!).
Here at the end, I can't help thinking of the Hero's Journey (á la Joseph Campbell) and the call to adventure, which the hero at first refuses to heed... Father Quixote is as reluctant a hero as any. He is not happy to be made a Monsignor and despairs at the bishop's intention to remove him from El Toboso. Soon he is on the road, being chased by the Guardia, attending a sexy film, spending the night in a brothel (sleeping), helping a thief, acting the part of Christ with the money lenders in the temple, and finally consecrating imaginary bread and wine and thereby attaining grace. We can't have the novel without the journey (or its inevitable? end), but part of me wished he could have remained happily in his little town, asking irrelevant questions in the confessional, making small forays for wine in Rocinante, reading John's Gospel and St. Francis de Sales, and eating Teresa's horse steaks. That's a graceful life too.
Thinking about the book and comments this morning, it seems to me Father Quixote did not himself need the journey to attain grace (though he passes through the requisite questioning and suffering to arrive at more a powerful version), but the final paragraph suggests he did effect a conversation in the Mayor--not to Catholicism but to a deeper love and spirituality. After all, he consecrates the imaginary bread and wine because that is what he does as a priest, but in those circumstances it deeply affects the witnesses, which, along with the rest of the journey and MQ's actions, have a profound effect on the Mayor.
Sancho to Father Leopoldo: "It would take too long to explain now."
For me, this could be the motto of the whole novel! The inexplicable, mysterious, and irreducibly complicated.
I love a good non-answer in dialogue. This is a gem.
What a lovely and strange ending, in all the best ways. I keep thinking about the ending in relation to character arc. Does MQ change? Is he shaped by these events? I feel he remains unshakably himself. I always define, for myself, story as the shaping of a character through a conflict and vice versa. But what about a story where the character remains faithful to his nature through his trials? Is it still a story? Is MQ changed, at his core, in some way by these events? I found myself asking these questions and—acknowledging that this is undeniably a story—having no answer.
Great questions!
My take: For sure, Sancho changed, as evident by that last paragraph - one of the most beautiful endings I have ever read. I feel like MQ changed but in a more subtle way. He came to terms with his doubts about his faith and his misgivings about the church.
Not sure how to agree with two comments, but I definitely agree with both of you that Sancho changes. And maybe MQ does change subtly—I’d hazard a guess that he’d be unlikely to overreact to a blunder like the half-bottle Holy Spirit by the end.
I also agree that Sancho has changed (and this change is still evolving). More than that, he is actually afraid of the love that has taken hold of him. He wonders, "with a kind of fear," if it's possible for this love to continue. And the book ends with a question that seems to trouble Sancho: "And to what end?" Sancho survives to continue a spiritual journey, ideas for him to ponder while in exile in Portugal.
Interesting question. Hope it will come up in the Zoom call. I didn't think about this issue until you raised it, but had noted in my comment that Sancho definitely changes by the end.
This section was so multi-layered that I had to re-read it several times. Yes, there is the interplay between “fact” and fiction, but also between faith and logic, and between human compassion and complex theology. One of my favorite lines is Father Leopold’s, which follows the page-long discussion of Descartes: “Do you think it’s more difficult to turn empty air into wine than wine into blood? Can our limited senses decide a thing like that? We are faced by an infinite mystery.” Even the doubting Sancho is feeling superstitious. And at the end, it seems to me he has been transformed by his friendship with the offspring of a fictional character.
So many quotable lines in this chapter - first and foremost that last paragraph. But here's one folks might have missed: "...in dark corners loom the wooden figures of popes and of the knights whose order founded the monastery. They take on an appearance of life, as sad memories do, when the dark has fallen."
I got behind and have only caught up today, so I didn't post much this time around. But I have read all of your insightful comments - thank you for your careful reads. I love reading with all of you!
Thank you for mentioning the audiobook last night. Just got it and look forward to listening to Firth read more Greene to me.
MQ’s faith allowed for inevitable doubt but ultimately triumphed and his holiness was not sullied by temptation. The same could not be said for those hate. In that sense, in retrospect, Sanchez has followed MQ’s guiding star and recognizes it at the end.
"...and yet love, the love...seemed now to live and grow in spite of the final separation and the final silence--for how long, he wondered with a kind of fear, was it possible for that love of his to continue? And to what end?" The only other Graham novel I've read is The End of the Affair, which also ends with an enduring friendship, and with more questions than certainty-but with an undeniable inkling of faith. According to wikipedia there are many forms of and theories about divine grace (Divine Grace?) but the one that sticks with me most is that you get it, whether or not you want it or deserve it. I am so so so sorry that I will be traveling on the subway right around 7pm tonite and so will likely miss most or all of the zoom tonite. My heartfelt thanks to you all for your insights and to Brigid Hughes and Yiyun Li for their vision for a living literary community that defies time and space. #APStogether forever! (and which GG novel should I read next????)
I too had to miss last night's Zoom, to my great disappointment. So grateful for APS Together and Yiyun Li!
Distinguishing fact vs fiction is such a big part of modern life but clearly, there are times where faith overrides both. In its lowest form, it is called confirmation bias.
I have a morbid fear of spoilers and my end-of-semester grading overcame me (forcing me out of this group read) but I look forward to coming back and reading what everyone has said. Sadly, I can't come tonight, either. But cheers and all.
I only pop in to plug the first two novels of William Gerhardie/Gerhardi (1895-1977) a very strange, interesting, mostly forgotten writer that Greene admired a great deal. And whose influence seemed very present in the 60% of Monsignor Quixote I've had a chance to finish. Gerhardie, English but raised in pre-Revolution Russia, wrote the first book in English on Chekhov...and his first two novels in particular, Futility (intro. by Edith Wharton) and The Polyglots were tremendously important to Greene's generation and their weird, wry notion of comedy. Olivia Manning noted that Greene, she, and others--Anthony Powell, too--sprang from Gerhardie as from Gogol's overcoat.
Those two early novels also share the distinction of being the only two out-of-print novels I ever talked anyone into bringing back. Melville House brought them out in their Neversink Library (Futility seems to be available, The Polyglots not?) and I like putting them on people's radar.
Anyhow, I don't mean to prattle on. Just thought I'd leave this here for anyone wanting to delve into how an Englishman born in 1904 assembled his sense of what's funny.
One of the reasons I enjoy this group so much is the opportunity to pursue recommendations. Thanks
“ I will never leave you, father. We have been on the road together too long for that.”
Seems perfect that the Mayor, Sancho, in post-Franco Spain, hunted by the Guardia, should be the one to state in the last lines that hate may end when a man dies, but love will endure.
And yet, Sancho, shortly thereafter, does leave MQ, if only physically.
Those last lines of Sancho convey the positive impact that MQ had on him. I usually think of literary catalysts as disruptive or larger than life, but with MQ, it was a quiet grace. I've really enjoyed this APS Together read, everyone! I have a writing class tonight so I won't be able to join the Zoom.
Love the idea of "a quiet grace"; it so perfectly captures MQ's life and influence on others - particularly Sancho!
If only religion focused more on quiet grace!
I've mostly been a lurker this time around, but thank you for introducing me to a book I doubt I would've ever found on my own.
Interesting that the novel begins with a quote from Hamlet “There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.” Is this meant to encapsulate the journey the characters as well as we, the readers, have undergone?
A real pleasure reading with you all! Sad that I'll miss the event tonight but trust it will be great.
I felt the same way. Couldn’t do the Zoom. Great to reconnect with other APS Together readers again.
Captivated by the nuances of "silence" throughout the novel, and "its" complexity in countering the stasis of "knowing," as well as, complicating the certitude of faith - and freedom. Sancho's interpretation of MQ's silence compellingly captures MQ's "quiet grace" (thank you Terri for your insightful articulation!): "Silence with him is not always a sign of peace. It sometimes means an agony of spirit." The pairing of agony and peace as counterpoints in a journey of faith, and correlative quest for "true" freedom, offers us all a reminder of the poignant power of silence, questioning, and lack of certitude as foundational to the shaping of a society seeking the promise of authentic freedom for all. Pollyanna-ish perhaps, but one can dream.
Thank you Yiyun for your selection of this book and facilitating our discussion through your daily quote selections and insightful comments; I looked forward each morning to reading your selections and thoughtful take aways/musings, which always stretched my own thinking. And, thank you to everyone, for all your thought-provoking insights, questions, connections, interpretations ... I was enriched each day by this profound community of readers, and the daily embrace of intellectual discussion, grounded in openness, inquiry, and willingness to be vulnerable in engaging with the "danger of ideas." A sanctuary indeed! I always feel sad when these slow, collective reads/dialogues comes to an end, but love the "grace" experienced in exploring the power of fiction/non-fiction(?) in community. I look forward to the next APS Together book/discussion (hopefully there will be another soon!).
Yes to all of that
Did anyone else get teary when MQ died?
For sure. I was sad when I read the title of the chapter.
Here at the end, I can't help thinking of the Hero's Journey (á la Joseph Campbell) and the call to adventure, which the hero at first refuses to heed... Father Quixote is as reluctant a hero as any. He is not happy to be made a Monsignor and despairs at the bishop's intention to remove him from El Toboso. Soon he is on the road, being chased by the Guardia, attending a sexy film, spending the night in a brothel (sleeping), helping a thief, acting the part of Christ with the money lenders in the temple, and finally consecrating imaginary bread and wine and thereby attaining grace. We can't have the novel without the journey (or its inevitable? end), but part of me wished he could have remained happily in his little town, asking irrelevant questions in the confessional, making small forays for wine in Rocinante, reading John's Gospel and St. Francis de Sales, and eating Teresa's horse steaks. That's a graceful life too.
Thinking about the book and comments this morning, it seems to me Father Quixote did not himself need the journey to attain grace (though he passes through the requisite questioning and suffering to arrive at more a powerful version), but the final paragraph suggests he did effect a conversation in the Mayor--not to Catholicism but to a deeper love and spirituality. After all, he consecrates the imaginary bread and wine because that is what he does as a priest, but in those circumstances it deeply affects the witnesses, which, along with the rest of the journey and MQ's actions, have a profound effect on the Mayor.
Indeed, it is!