Poor Marian! She got a taste of power she didn't expect and the self-respect that can come with money. Then just as suddenly lost it. She is referred to as "the girl" again. If she never had it, she wouldn't sense what was gone. "Not much help to be expected in this world," she says just before Gissing gives her the "fog treatment":
"The thick black fog penetrated every corner of the house. It could be smelt and tasted. Such an atmosphere produces low-spirited languor even in the vigorous and hopeful; to those wasted by suffering it is the very reek of the bottomless pit, poisoning the soul.”
And..as Yiyun says, the discussion of fiction from Milvain and Yule, two schemers at best, gives a bad taste to the art. Writing fiction is presented almost as “women’s work” or an insult. I wonder if Gissing lived among these insults.
With Marian and Jasper's discussion after she discloses loss of the inheritance Gissing brilliantly sows the seeds of what I suspect will eventually undo their relationship. When Marioan needs his affection most, Jasper can't stop himself pulling back a little, but perceptively, much as he may want to be there for her. She won't forget this injury to what she would prize most about their union. Its an old old story, but never better rendered in art than here.
I couldn't come away from the conversation between Jasper and Marian without being sad and disappointed. They were both so contrived in their responses, Jasper to offer reassurance - "You shall be my wife, and you shall have as many luxuries, as if you had brought me a fortune." And Marian finding the worst interpretations of Jasper's statements, even as she was concerned that - "... had she been too demonstrative, and made her love too cheap? Now that Jasper's love might be endangered, it behooved her to use any arts which nature prompted."
I guess the most revealing thing for me was the way Jasper kicked the footstool around while waxing splenetic with Dora and Maud.
I feel compelled to add to my disdain for Alfred after reading - '"That's all I had to say", concluded her father, his voice tremulous with self-compassion.' He claimed to have seen a reputable doctor to add to his claim for sympathy. Eeww!
Is Jasper and Alfred's manipulations much different than Amy? The settings are different but the underlying desire to be seen as a success and have social status are the same. All three have a very distinct image of how they see themselves and they are willing to sacrifice love and family to get there. All three are self-centered. Amy wanted Reardon to write low brow fiction the same as Jasper and Alfred want Marian to. All three were/are willing to use a loving relationship to get the status they want.
“A fog-veiled sky added its weight to crush here her spirit ; at the hour when she usually rose it was still all but as dark as midnight.” The weather/fog in London is like a malevolent character coming to visit.
My favorite line in this chapter was something like -- it’s too large to try and think of it all at once. Some wise words that I’m going to ignore by saying that due to pandemic fog, I’ve been retaining less and less of what I read, the upshot of which is that the supposedly larger more important points -- Yule guilt tripping his daughter about having taught her everything -- rise to the fore. Yesterday I was remiss on several points, including most importantly that Yule did prepay for the diagnosis, in the form of dinner and a drink! Reading makes me feel humble, always.
“The thick black fog penetrated every corner of the house. It could be smelt and tasted. Such an atmosphere produces low-spirited languor even in the vigorous and hopeful; to those wasted by suffering it is the very reek of the bottomless pit, poisoning the soul.”
The character of the London soot that has appeared off and on has breached the interior of the home. We’ve spiraled down a long way from the stile and meadow in Wattleborough.
I wonder how many times Gissing uses the word 'women' in this novel? As opposed to 'men' say? He has made so many generalizations about women. If it is not in the narrative voice he has a male character say it. Jasper to Marian:"You mustn't be so literal, dearest. Women are so desperately matter-of-fact; it comes out even in their love-talk."
Yes, since he is making Jasper say it and it's Jasper - that does indicate that Gissing knows there's something problematic with his comments. Jasper hides behind his error of insulting Marian by making a gross statement about women in general. It's cowardly - the essence of Jasper Milvain, I'd argue.
Two things. First, I didn’t view the two suggestions that Marian consider writing fiction as so terrible. There were not many respectable money-making options for women in those days and Marian is a good writer. So why not suggest she write fiction? Second, my favorite phrase in this chapter (and beyond) was the description of Alfred, “his voice tremulous with self-compassion.” What a put down!
I share Yiyun's response to Jasper and Alfred's proposition that Marian write fiction. They are making it out to be easier than it is to write for the market, and she has no desire to do it, so it would be joyless and, I suspect, unprofitable. I fear her suffering the way Reardon did, talking in his sleep and hating the product--and worrying about money the whole time. I'm not sure what to wish for Marian. A better father and a better lover, certainly. But what employment would make her happy? Writing creates in her a "despondent weariness," as observed by Alfred (who is insensitively irritated by it). But she is clearly going to have to write something.
"I have only one superstition that I know of, and that forbids me to take a step backward." If Jasper achieves his goals, it is evidence of the power of will and personality. He works; he networks; and he refuses to accept failure.
Poor Marian! She got a taste of power she didn't expect and the self-respect that can come with money. Then just as suddenly lost it. She is referred to as "the girl" again. If she never had it, she wouldn't sense what was gone. "Not much help to be expected in this world," she says just before Gissing gives her the "fog treatment":
"The thick black fog penetrated every corner of the house. It could be smelt and tasted. Such an atmosphere produces low-spirited languor even in the vigorous and hopeful; to those wasted by suffering it is the very reek of the bottomless pit, poisoning the soul.”
And..as Yiyun says, the discussion of fiction from Milvain and Yule, two schemers at best, gives a bad taste to the art. Writing fiction is presented almost as “women’s work” or an insult. I wonder if Gissing lived among these insults.
With Marian and Jasper's discussion after she discloses loss of the inheritance Gissing brilliantly sows the seeds of what I suspect will eventually undo their relationship. When Marioan needs his affection most, Jasper can't stop himself pulling back a little, but perceptively, much as he may want to be there for her. She won't forget this injury to what she would prize most about their union. Its an old old story, but never better rendered in art than here.
I couldn't come away from the conversation between Jasper and Marian without being sad and disappointed. They were both so contrived in their responses, Jasper to offer reassurance - "You shall be my wife, and you shall have as many luxuries, as if you had brought me a fortune." And Marian finding the worst interpretations of Jasper's statements, even as she was concerned that - "... had she been too demonstrative, and made her love too cheap? Now that Jasper's love might be endangered, it behooved her to use any arts which nature prompted."
I guess the most revealing thing for me was the way Jasper kicked the footstool around while waxing splenetic with Dora and Maud.
I feel compelled to add to my disdain for Alfred after reading - '"That's all I had to say", concluded her father, his voice tremulous with self-compassion.' He claimed to have seen a reputable doctor to add to his claim for sympathy. Eeww!
Is Jasper and Alfred's manipulations much different than Amy? The settings are different but the underlying desire to be seen as a success and have social status are the same. All three have a very distinct image of how they see themselves and they are willing to sacrifice love and family to get there. All three are self-centered. Amy wanted Reardon to write low brow fiction the same as Jasper and Alfred want Marian to. All three were/are willing to use a loving relationship to get the status they want.
“A fog-veiled sky added its weight to crush here her spirit ; at the hour when she usually rose it was still all but as dark as midnight.” The weather/fog in London is like a malevolent character coming to visit.
My favorite line in this chapter was something like -- it’s too large to try and think of it all at once. Some wise words that I’m going to ignore by saying that due to pandemic fog, I’ve been retaining less and less of what I read, the upshot of which is that the supposedly larger more important points -- Yule guilt tripping his daughter about having taught her everything -- rise to the fore. Yesterday I was remiss on several points, including most importantly that Yule did prepay for the diagnosis, in the form of dinner and a drink! Reading makes me feel humble, always.
“The thick black fog penetrated every corner of the house. It could be smelt and tasted. Such an atmosphere produces low-spirited languor even in the vigorous and hopeful; to those wasted by suffering it is the very reek of the bottomless pit, poisoning the soul.”
The character of the London soot that has appeared off and on has breached the interior of the home. We’ve spiraled down a long way from the stile and meadow in Wattleborough.
I wonder how many times Gissing uses the word 'women' in this novel? As opposed to 'men' say? He has made so many generalizations about women. If it is not in the narrative voice he has a male character say it. Jasper to Marian:"You mustn't be so literal, dearest. Women are so desperately matter-of-fact; it comes out even in their love-talk."
Yes, since he is making Jasper say it and it's Jasper - that does indicate that Gissing knows there's something problematic with his comments. Jasper hides behind his error of insulting Marian by making a gross statement about women in general. It's cowardly - the essence of Jasper Milvain, I'd argue.
The last two paragraphs with the description of light seemed so cinematic.
Two things. First, I didn’t view the two suggestions that Marian consider writing fiction as so terrible. There were not many respectable money-making options for women in those days and Marian is a good writer. So why not suggest she write fiction? Second, my favorite phrase in this chapter (and beyond) was the description of Alfred, “his voice tremulous with self-compassion.” What a put down!
I share Yiyun's response to Jasper and Alfred's proposition that Marian write fiction. They are making it out to be easier than it is to write for the market, and she has no desire to do it, so it would be joyless and, I suspect, unprofitable. I fear her suffering the way Reardon did, talking in his sleep and hating the product--and worrying about money the whole time. I'm not sure what to wish for Marian. A better father and a better lover, certainly. But what employment would make her happy? Writing creates in her a "despondent weariness," as observed by Alfred (who is insensitively irritated by it). But she is clearly going to have to write something.
"I have only one superstition that I know of, and that forbids me to take a step backward." If Jasper achieves his goals, it is evidence of the power of will and personality. He works; he networks; and he refuses to accept failure.