Wave after wave of cynicism! Not just from Jasper but the narrator (Gissing?) who calls it regrettable that the Milvain girls received an education incompatible with their material circumstances. How very sad!
The more I learn of Gissing’s own struggles, the more I believe that he periodically emerges from behind the curtain to address his audience directly using the voice of the narrator
And their inability to reciprocate generosity means they cultivate no friendships. "...though they could not help knowing many people, they had no intimates." Very sad indeed!
You mentioned the train and when I read the part where they missed seeing the oncoming train I thought "Jasper's train has left the station" Maybe it just triggered a familiar quote but I also wondered if this is indicative of things to come for Jasper.
"Milvain and his companion ran to the opposite parapet, but already the whole train had emerged, and in a few seconds it had disappeared round a sharp curve.
I could be wrong, but I thought they were rushing to go see the train at a particular location and when they got there it had already emerged. You’re right though maybe I misinterpreted that.
I reread it and you are right it does appear they saw it. Interestingly, he says "it enspirits me" and Marian said for her it had the "opposite effect". The train seems significant if only to see the impact this new technology has on both of them. He's ambitions and she seems "old school".
I love train imagery! The train is modern, fast, rushing, a force, unstoppable, carrying masses of people from one place to another, steam-powered, loud, industrial, inevitable
"The front of the engine blackened nearer and nearer, coming on with dread force and speed. A blinding rush, and there burst against the bridge a great volley of sunlit steam."
I love the train section, too, though I never connected the passage with Poohsticks!
This section made me aware of Gissing's writing technique--the sudden moment, the stillness of plot as we stand with the two characters, watching an anticipated train rush by. Now we often associate excitement over trains with children, but I suspect they were still just new enough to evoke that awe in adults. And, trains and railroads meant money and power, which would have impressed Milvain. Later in the chapter, the train also becomes his first step into independence when he leaves for London.
So much character conveyed in a moment of watching. And the witty cynicism about the fast-moving business of writing throughout the chapter seems to echo the rush in a way.
Jasper gossips constantly about a good friend, mansplains incessantly about publishing, and is one of those unpublished aspiring writers who goes on about the rigged system. He's kind of boorish.
Agree - Jasper seems to exercise his transparent cynicism with joy, and his guileless attempts to win favor are more appealing because he's not so careful in his speech as to seem manipulative.
This rings true - Jasper’s aspiration, clouded by obsession, accounts for his single-mindedness - he’s not self-aware, which contributes to his boorishness. Alfred came off that way to me, too, especially as he repeated the same story for different listeners, or droned on esoterically with Jasper, enjoying hearing himself speak.
Jasper is entertaining and perhaps candid, but I don't like him. I don't get the sense that he cares about other people. And at this point he's only mildly compelling to me.
Beginning with joy (a sylvan scene with a stile - though not a turnstile, as my urban mind at first imagined, but more likely a ladder)...and ending with hope (a literary journey to London) with a middle that ebbs and flows with conversation. AT times, there's dispiriting talk about a life in literature — but Jasper is constantly contemplating (scheming) topics for literary journals, so there's energy!
Again, I'm reminded of Flaubert...provincial/capital...or in China...rural/urban
Describing Jasper's grandiloquence as "your large way of talking" is fun, like all their conversational recaps (bigger group talks, then one or two of them reconvene...). It sounds so simple and timeless. I will try to use it in conversation today.
"You still have to learn," said Jasper, "that modesty helps a man in no department of modern life." I was most attracted to this phrase because it makes a point that my father used to make upon me, as he attempted to redirect me for my unwillingness to toot my own horn!
Jasper proclaims Marian to be “a very interesting girl” and advises his sisters “to make a friend of her” because “she might be valuable – morally, [he] means.” Yet, Jasper will take the opposite tact for himself: [He] shall do [his] best not to see her again for a long time; she’s dangerous.” Ahhh, yes, what “interesting girl” (woman!) is not dangerous?! Apparently, only a woman who presents with “a diffident smile in which lay[s] that suggestion of humour” can be found “delightful.” Really? Have gendered manifestations of acceptability changed all that much today? I continue to ponder.
Maud and Dora manifest another version of “dangerousness” – their intelligence: “[P]eople … spoke of them as rather cold and perhaps a trifle condescending … The truth was … nature had endowed them with a larger share of brains than was common in their circle, and had added that touch of pride which harmonized so ill with the restrictions of poverty” (36). Dangerous? A bemusing thought, indeed.
I was under the impression that he considered her dangerous because she, if they were to advance their relationship, might present analogous (negative) effect that Reardon‘s wife had had upon Reardon’s career
Agreed. Marion is dangerous to Jasper as a potential marriage prospect, which would threaten his ultimate career prospects. Yet, implicitly her "dangerousness" seems to lay in the very "interesting-ness" that captivates Jasper; rather than embrace the power of an "interesting" female, this quality is understood as threatening, something to be denigrated, in order to safeguard one's masculinity. In this context, the "danger" feels somewhat paradoxical and humorous --- causing Jasper to flee the "familiar fields" and "leave by the 2:45 ... [s]afe in the corner of his third-class carriage."
Intriguing descriptors attached to laughter and smiles in this chapter seem to subtly illuminate the tenuous – perhaps sardonic – “acceptance of” and “push against” social norms and one’s expected place in society: “barked in laughter” (35) / “smiled ambiguously” (38) / “laughed incredulously” (41) / “laughed in his peculiar croaking way” (34) / “a diffident smile” (29).
"Smiled ambiguously" sounds like something Shirley Jackson would write. My favorite is "laughed in his peculiar croaking way." Jackson would like that too; it's macabre (and fantastic).
Gissing creates quietly powerful female characters with the lightest brush stroke. Marian "looked at [Jasper] oddly and seemed about to laugh," and later speaks to him "with a diffident smile in which lay the suggestion of humor..." She is laughing at his pompous mansplaining without jeopardizing his ego. Still later, Maud gives it to Jasper straight: "Perhaps...your large way of talking made him think any such offer superfluous." Yes, these women are subjected to the patriarchy, but don't underestimate them. I wouldn't be surprised if Marian is a ghostwriter for her father!
Jasper mentions "a work of genius" which makes me wonder, what is genius to him? Walking with Marian and talking of money, later avoiding the 'dangerous woman', he reminds me of young Scrooge.
I like Jasper. He has spunk. Marion is dangerous to Jasper. A young man who marries too soon threatens his career prospects. Think Lydgate in Middlemarch and Trollope’s villain, Mr. Crosby, who panics that he won’t have enough money after he becomes engaged. But Jasper seems to have good instincts-- about money and women. I have faith in him.
Catching up: I’m currently all about Anthony Trollope, Gissing’s contemporary. Trollope was a prolific writer but also struggled financially. After he made the mistake of confessing in his autobiography that he wrote daily, on a schedule, he was bashed by critics and his reputation took a hit. Apparently writers were supposed to be inspired, not worried about money. Trollope worked as a civil servant for many years, as do some of his characters. Interesting that Jasper thought of joining the civil service in London, but could not. He is not the patient type.
I tore through the Barchester Chronicles a few years ago. They are both satirists - though I find Gissing's tone darker and more misanthropic. That he has (so far) put Jasper at the center of the book instead of Reardon speaks volumes to me.
I’m still hopeful about Jasper--maybe from spending the last several months listening to the more cheerful chronicles. Both Gissing and Trollope great at moving characters between country and city
When Jasper returns from his walk, enspirited by the train and, presumably, Marian, he enters the horse pasture to spend his excitement, "now and then standing to observe a poor worn-out beast, all skin and bone, which had presumably been sent here in the hope that a little more labor might still be exacted from it if it were suffered to repose for a few weeks. There were sores upon its back and legs; it stood in a fixed attitude of despondency, just flicking away troublesome flies with its grizzled tail." What a dismal and painful image--and here at a moment of joy for Jasper. I wonder if this is where he decides Marian is dangerous. In any case, this struck me. We get a whole passage about this poor creature, unable, at this point, even to enjoy its repose.
The Great Western Railway was established in 1833. I think the scene is stunning. I'm no spotter, but my heart skips a beat whenever I'm near a crossing.
Wave after wave of cynicism! Not just from Jasper but the narrator (Gissing?) who calls it regrettable that the Milvain girls received an education incompatible with their material circumstances. How very sad!
I know! I wonder if Gissing is presenting education as a sort of false hope leading to an unfulfilled reality.
The more I learn of Gissing’s own struggles, the more I believe that he periodically emerges from behind the curtain to address his audience directly using the voice of the narrator
And their inability to reciprocate generosity means they cultivate no friendships. "...though they could not help knowing many people, they had no intimates." Very sad indeed!
You mentioned the train and when I read the part where they missed seeing the oncoming train I thought "Jasper's train has left the station" Maybe it just triggered a familiar quote but I also wondered if this is indicative of things to come for Jasper.
"Milvain and his companion ran to the opposite parapet, but already the whole train had emerged, and in a few seconds it had disappeared round a sharp curve.
I pictured it rushing right at them. Has his train left the station? Or is it barreling toward him?
I could be wrong, but I thought they were rushing to go see the train at a particular location and when they got there it had already emerged. You’re right though maybe I misinterpreted that.
I reread it and you are right it does appear they saw it. Interestingly, he says "it enspirits me" and Marian said for her it had the "opposite effect". The train seems significant if only to see the impact this new technology has on both of them. He's ambitions and she seems "old school".
Agree - it seemed that the train inspired Jasper because it represented the city life, while Marian was apprehensive about returning to the city
I love train imagery! The train is modern, fast, rushing, a force, unstoppable, carrying masses of people from one place to another, steam-powered, loud, industrial, inevitable
Yes. And Jasper seems like a "modern" man so it would fit that he would get excited by it.
"The front of the engine blackened nearer and nearer, coming on with dread force and speed. A blinding rush, and there burst against the bridge a great volley of sunlit steam."
I love the train section, too, though I never connected the passage with Poohsticks!
This section made me aware of Gissing's writing technique--the sudden moment, the stillness of plot as we stand with the two characters, watching an anticipated train rush by. Now we often associate excitement over trains with children, but I suspect they were still just new enough to evoke that awe in adults. And, trains and railroads meant money and power, which would have impressed Milvain. Later in the chapter, the train also becomes his first step into independence when he leaves for London.
So much character conveyed in a moment of watching. And the witty cynicism about the fast-moving business of writing throughout the chapter seems to echo the rush in a way.
Interesting also that Milvain presents “literary work” as a way for women to do something other than teaching or “governessing."
right? this constant, why don't use just write something and sell it for money???
Especially when he acknowledges in chapter one that it takes a certain skill, which he doesn't have (or care to cultivate, I think).
Jasper gossips constantly about a good friend, mansplains incessantly about publishing, and is one of those unpublished aspiring writers who goes on about the rigged system. He's kind of boorish.
Isn't Jasper so very sympathetic though? We latch on to anyone we can in a world like this...
Agree - Jasper seems to exercise his transparent cynicism with joy, and his guileless attempts to win favor are more appealing because he's not so careful in his speech as to seem manipulative.
Jasper has qualities that can be symptomatic in a young man. At some point he has to grow out of them or become intolerable.
This rings true - Jasper’s aspiration, clouded by obsession, accounts for his single-mindedness - he’s not self-aware, which contributes to his boorishness. Alfred came off that way to me, too, especially as he repeated the same story for different listeners, or droned on esoterically with Jasper, enjoying hearing himself speak.
Jasper is entertaining and perhaps candid, but I don't like him. I don't get the sense that he cares about other people. And at this point he's only mildly compelling to me.
Beginning with joy (a sylvan scene with a stile - though not a turnstile, as my urban mind at first imagined, but more likely a ladder)...and ending with hope (a literary journey to London) with a middle that ebbs and flows with conversation. AT times, there's dispiriting talk about a life in literature — but Jasper is constantly contemplating (scheming) topics for literary journals, so there's energy!
Again, I'm reminded of Flaubert...provincial/capital...or in China...rural/urban
Thanks - I had trouble visualizing that setting
Describing Jasper's grandiloquence as "your large way of talking" is fun, like all their conversational recaps (bigger group talks, then one or two of them reconvene...). It sounds so simple and timeless. I will try to use it in conversation today.
"You still have to learn," said Jasper, "that modesty helps a man in no department of modern life." I was most attracted to this phrase because it makes a point that my father used to make upon me, as he attempted to redirect me for my unwillingness to toot my own horn!
Jasper proclaims Marian to be “a very interesting girl” and advises his sisters “to make a friend of her” because “she might be valuable – morally, [he] means.” Yet, Jasper will take the opposite tact for himself: [He] shall do [his] best not to see her again for a long time; she’s dangerous.” Ahhh, yes, what “interesting girl” (woman!) is not dangerous?! Apparently, only a woman who presents with “a diffident smile in which lay[s] that suggestion of humour” can be found “delightful.” Really? Have gendered manifestations of acceptability changed all that much today? I continue to ponder.
Maud and Dora manifest another version of “dangerousness” – their intelligence: “[P]eople … spoke of them as rather cold and perhaps a trifle condescending … The truth was … nature had endowed them with a larger share of brains than was common in their circle, and had added that touch of pride which harmonized so ill with the restrictions of poverty” (36). Dangerous? A bemusing thought, indeed.
I was under the impression that he considered her dangerous because she, if they were to advance their relationship, might present analogous (negative) effect that Reardon‘s wife had had upon Reardon’s career
Agreed. Marion is dangerous to Jasper as a potential marriage prospect, which would threaten his ultimate career prospects. Yet, implicitly her "dangerousness" seems to lay in the very "interesting-ness" that captivates Jasper; rather than embrace the power of an "interesting" female, this quality is understood as threatening, something to be denigrated, in order to safeguard one's masculinity. In this context, the "danger" feels somewhat paradoxical and humorous --- causing Jasper to flee the "familiar fields" and "leave by the 2:45 ... [s]afe in the corner of his third-class carriage."
Intriguing descriptors attached to laughter and smiles in this chapter seem to subtly illuminate the tenuous – perhaps sardonic – “acceptance of” and “push against” social norms and one’s expected place in society: “barked in laughter” (35) / “smiled ambiguously” (38) / “laughed incredulously” (41) / “laughed in his peculiar croaking way” (34) / “a diffident smile” (29).
"Smiled ambiguously" sounds like something Shirley Jackson would write. My favorite is "laughed in his peculiar croaking way." Jackson would like that too; it's macabre (and fantastic).
Gissing creates quietly powerful female characters with the lightest brush stroke. Marian "looked at [Jasper] oddly and seemed about to laugh," and later speaks to him "with a diffident smile in which lay the suggestion of humor..." She is laughing at his pompous mansplaining without jeopardizing his ego. Still later, Maud gives it to Jasper straight: "Perhaps...your large way of talking made him think any such offer superfluous." Yes, these women are subjected to the patriarchy, but don't underestimate them. I wouldn't be surprised if Marian is a ghostwriter for her father!
Spot on!
I imagine Maud saying that with delicious wryness.
Jasper mentions "a work of genius" which makes me wonder, what is genius to him? Walking with Marian and talking of money, later avoiding the 'dangerous woman', he reminds me of young Scrooge.
I like Jasper. He has spunk. Marion is dangerous to Jasper. A young man who marries too soon threatens his career prospects. Think Lydgate in Middlemarch and Trollope’s villain, Mr. Crosby, who panics that he won’t have enough money after he becomes engaged. But Jasper seems to have good instincts-- about money and women. I have faith in him.
Catching up: I’m currently all about Anthony Trollope, Gissing’s contemporary. Trollope was a prolific writer but also struggled financially. After he made the mistake of confessing in his autobiography that he wrote daily, on a schedule, he was bashed by critics and his reputation took a hit. Apparently writers were supposed to be inspired, not worried about money. Trollope worked as a civil servant for many years, as do some of his characters. Interesting that Jasper thought of joining the civil service in London, but could not. He is not the patient type.
I tore through the Barchester Chronicles a few years ago. They are both satirists - though I find Gissing's tone darker and more misanthropic. That he has (so far) put Jasper at the center of the book instead of Reardon speaks volumes to me.
I’m still hopeful about Jasper--maybe from spending the last several months listening to the more cheerful chronicles. Both Gissing and Trollope great at moving characters between country and city
When Jasper returns from his walk, enspirited by the train and, presumably, Marian, he enters the horse pasture to spend his excitement, "now and then standing to observe a poor worn-out beast, all skin and bone, which had presumably been sent here in the hope that a little more labor might still be exacted from it if it were suffered to repose for a few weeks. There were sores upon its back and legs; it stood in a fixed attitude of despondency, just flicking away troublesome flies with its grizzled tail." What a dismal and painful image--and here at a moment of joy for Jasper. I wonder if this is where he decides Marian is dangerous. In any case, this struck me. We get a whole passage about this poor creature, unable, at this point, even to enjoy its repose.
The Great Western Railway was established in 1833. I think the scene is stunning. I'm no spotter, but my heart skips a beat whenever I'm near a crossing.