"If Germany would shut up her schools and universities for the next quarter of a century and go ahead like blazes with military training there'd be a nation such as the world has never seen."
Prescient! Something like this actually would happen, and Germany would become a nation such as the world has never seen. A horror.
in reference to Miss Harrow, "The greater part of her life she had spent as a governess; her position now is more agreeable, and the removal of her anxiety about the future had developed qualities of cheerfulness which formally no one would've suspected her to possess." This clear relationship between penury/financial uncertainty upon attitude/demeanor is not a revelation, but it's effect upon the characters must be considered
Experiment suggests constraint to me. Time is usually one, so John in this chapter makes me think of the necessity of literature, which demands so much. At a Whole Foods once, my friend and her friend posed a question to me, a question perhaps on many people’s minds, if not always articulated and certainly not in the same way. It made me think perhaps that though poetry makes nothing happen, it makes us long to see what Flaubert, in Margaret Mauldon’s translation, calls “stars to pity”. Will Gissing, the novelist, succeed on this? time may tell.
Reardon definitely seems to be more of an idealist than Milvain, but I do wonder where Reardon and Milvain will land at the end. I have no idea where Gissing stands on this....which is likely good in terms of reading the novel.
I loved this too; a cutting observation on Psalm 23:4: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death? Maybe? Temptation also came up in this chapter...
"He [John Yule] lived a life of curious self-absorption, reading newspapers (little else), and talking with old friends who had stuck to him despite his irascibility." Interesting summation. What is "curious" meant to convey? Is it John who is curious in his self-absorption? (not likely)
"He [Alfred Yule] was tall and his head seemed a disproportionate culmination to his meagre body, it was so large and massively featured." Great line. Gissing does have a way with description.
And I laughed out loud at this: "'That man deserves penal servitude, in my opinion,' pursued John. 'I'm not sure that it isn't my duty to offer him a couple of hundred a year on condition that he writes no more.'" Poor Reardon. His great crime: being a literary novelist.
I flagged curious self-absorption too. I wondered if Gissing meant curious sardonically, meaning "how odd that he is self-absorbed since objectively speaking there is nothing absorbing about him."
"You talk of civilizing; there's no such way of civilizing the masses of the people as by fixed military service. Before mental training must come training of the body."
An able-bodied physically fit military was probably a real concern at that time and yet the fear of the corrupting influence of stories on society is as old as the hills. From the impact of romance novels on women in the 1800's to television to the internet today!
"If I were to take up your views, I think it isn’t at all unlikely that I might make a good thing of writing against writing. It should be my literary specialty to rail against literature. The reading public should pay me for telling them that they oughtn’t to read. I must think it over.”
Interesting to read how much people were thinking about reading or not reading, and what was worth reading. And education. And the business of creating pulp (literally here) versus quality material.
I also can't help thinking of Thoreau deriding people who desperately reached for the "news" in Walden (chapter titled "Reading," I think) and/or Emerson who was so drawn (early in his life) to Carlyle. This would have been decades before Gissing, but not irrelevant. A discussion about the changing understanding of ancient rhetoric in ancient Greece and the relationship to changes in public education and literacy even then influences this comment.
You inspired me to flip through Walden. He has so much to say about what 'should' be read. "The best books are not read even by those who are called good readers. What does our Concord culture amount to?" Though at the end of "Reading" also seems to say we should not allow others (publishers, parson, pedagogues) to choose for us either.
Such an astute comment. After the second chapter, I still read this book as scathing satire, and reading it in that light made me believe this discourse about literature being bad for the people was exaggerated for the sake of humor. Now I wonder: How much of this discourse really was happening at that time, and if so, how openly and within which castes?
I’m struck by the deep bench of characters, the contrast to the economy of the modern novel. Maybe it works because books were a prized and pricey commodity? Readers were going to pore over them, share them, reread. Writers could afford some risks with readers’ attention. If a modern novel loses a reader, there’s a long, affordable queue of more-accessible work.
And the eight Ramsay children in To the Lighthouse--we had a thread about this in a previous APS Together. They survived turn-of-the-century infant mortality rates, but they wouldn’t make it through a writing workshop.
An astute evocation (sadly!) of the modern reader's limited attention span, and the consequent writer's "dilemma" as one who cannot "afford to risk ... readers' attention." Perhaps this is the very "mental indigestion" (for readers and writers) that Alfred Yule, who is "by no means ... beyond the ripeness of his mental vigor," insists is the consequence of literature and its inducement to "moon over small print." Literature as the anti-thesis of "civilization" according to Alfred, indeed! Scathing satire or sardonic wit? Hmmm.
I literally just finished reading Richard Rodriguez's The Hunger of Memory, in which he describes being pent up in the very same reading room. Eerily coincidental. Thanks for posting the link!
Wow! This is crazy but my Virginia Woolf group (it is a twitter group) is reading Night & Day and in today's reading it mentions the British Museum reading room as well. Is the universe sending us a message?
She was familiar with his work. I read online that she reviewed New Grubb Street but I can't find it. Here is a quote from Woolf: “Gissing is one of the extremely rare novelists who believes in the power of the mind, who makes his people think” So far I'd agree!
Fascinating. Love the cast of notables who were "granted" access. The archived photo inspired my reading fantasies: becoming lost amidst an endless maze of books, mystery, and unknown pleasures. While I would never have been granted access to the Reading Room, in my imagination I am an "obvious dweller in the valley of the shadow of books." So appreciate the link!
Contradictions everywhere. In addition to the ones you all already mentioned, here's another: "by presuming too far upon the bodily vigor which prompted these activities, he passed of a sudden into the state of a confirmed invalid." If physical exercise is good for you, why is he debilitated by it? If reading is bad for you, why has he profited from it? If reading is bad for you, why does he participate (i.e. The Optimist)? Much of this is for humor, I think. (If I was chuckling in the first chapter, I was guffawing in the second chapter.) But there's an interesting philosophical argument re: mind vs body brewing here.
why is john yule in a dressing gown in the middle of the afternoon? I expect english eccentricities but I almost passed over it because post-pandemic, subconsciously I have reluctantly accepted that sweatpants and athleisure gear are acceptable attire when hosting guests and talking about the publishing industry.
You are too funny. I wore athleisure wear to the park today to do my reading. Really we all could be wearing dressing gowns all the time nowadays, I saw a grey and purple paisley I fancied last time I was in London, it would make a smashing long jacket!
A walk broken up by reading now and again is the perfect exercise! Breathing beautiful fall air not filled with smoke is heaven too. It was a perfect day!
I was in my Arsenal FC track jacket most of today so not sure I have any right to talk. But I do enjoy dressing up and I love ballroom dancing. Will there be dancing in New Grub Street??? I dare hope so!
in my public high school, senior year, we all took ballroom dancing to prep for the prom. one dance all high school kids should learn is the Madison, featured in Godard's Band of Outsiders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1q9G2YmVqI
Earlier in the chapter: "On an autumn expedition in the Hebrides, he slept one night under the open sky, with the result that he had an all but fatal attack of rheumatic fever. After that, though the direction of his interests was unchanged, he could no longer set the example to Wattleborough youth of muscular manliness."
I took the robe to show John Yule's boistrous frustration at being in his reduced physical state. I suspect Gissing may have been less impressed by those who set examples of "muscular manliness." I do, however, like the surprisingly contemporary fashion statement Gissing gives to John Yule here!
Kind of liking Jasper in this chapter. He’s not intimidated by “important” people and maybe is a real writer as a trade of course. Loved the summary of the Yules brothers but was frustrated by Gissing’s failure to give the women first and last names at the same time. It’s either Mrs. X or FirstName without saying which Yule she goes with. And some have no first names at all. Is there a purpose behind this?
What a great name, Fadge. You can just hear it dripping in: “His utterance of the name ‘Mr. Fadge’ sufficiently intimated that he had some cause of personal discontent with the editor....” Can’t wait to find out what.
What fun our author is having with us!
"If Germany would shut up her schools and universities for the next quarter of a century and go ahead like blazes with military training there'd be a nation such as the world has never seen."
Prescient! Something like this actually would happen, and Germany would become a nation such as the world has never seen. A horror.
That was chilling.
The reference felt pretty ham-handed til I reminded myself of the publication date. Then Gissing felt like the Nostradamus of Grub Street.
I thought the same thing.
Yes! A wave against education and free thought...sounds all too familiar
in reference to Miss Harrow, "The greater part of her life she had spent as a governess; her position now is more agreeable, and the removal of her anxiety about the future had developed qualities of cheerfulness which formally no one would've suspected her to possess." This clear relationship between penury/financial uncertainty upon attitude/demeanor is not a revelation, but it's effect upon the characters must be considered
Experiment suggests constraint to me. Time is usually one, so John in this chapter makes me think of the necessity of literature, which demands so much. At a Whole Foods once, my friend and her friend posed a question to me, a question perhaps on many people’s minds, if not always articulated and certainly not in the same way. It made me think perhaps that though poetry makes nothing happen, it makes us long to see what Flaubert, in Margaret Mauldon’s translation, calls “stars to pity”. Will Gissing, the novelist, succeed on this? time may tell.
Experiment in art is one (noble) thing; here, when considering “experiment" as marriage in middle age...all very interesting!
Love the carrot of Reardon’s “The Optimist,” dangled amidst so much delicious cynicism.
Good catch! I missed that.
Reardon definitely seems to be more of an idealist than Milvain, but I do wonder where Reardon and Milvain will land at the end. I have no idea where Gissing stands on this....which is likely good in terms of reading the novel.
And strangely, at this point at least, Jasper seems to be an optimist. I can't wait to meet Reardon.
I am an “obvious dweller in the valley of the shadow of books.” I’d buy the t-shirt.
I loved this too; a cutting observation on Psalm 23:4: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death? Maybe? Temptation also came up in this chapter...
"He [John Yule] lived a life of curious self-absorption, reading newspapers (little else), and talking with old friends who had stuck to him despite his irascibility." Interesting summation. What is "curious" meant to convey? Is it John who is curious in his self-absorption? (not likely)
"He [Alfred Yule] was tall and his head seemed a disproportionate culmination to his meagre body, it was so large and massively featured." Great line. Gissing does have a way with description.
And I laughed out loud at this: "'That man deserves penal servitude, in my opinion,' pursued John. 'I'm not sure that it isn't my duty to offer him a couple of hundred a year on condition that he writes no more.'" Poor Reardon. His great crime: being a literary novelist.
Jasper burst out laughing, too! It seemed to escape from him without thinking
I flagged curious self-absorption too. I wondered if Gissing meant curious sardonically, meaning "how odd that he is self-absorbed since objectively speaking there is nothing absorbing about him."
I am laughing so hard, don't we have to be respectful of narcissistic characters?
"You talk of civilizing; there's no such way of civilizing the masses of the people as by fixed military service. Before mental training must come training of the body."
An able-bodied physically fit military was probably a real concern at that time and yet the fear of the corrupting influence of stories on society is as old as the hills. From the impact of romance novels on women in the 1800's to television to the internet today!
"If I were to take up your views, I think it isn’t at all unlikely that I might make a good thing of writing against writing. It should be my literary specialty to rail against literature. The reading public should pay me for telling them that they oughtn’t to read. I must think it over.”
Interesting to read how much people were thinking about reading or not reading, and what was worth reading. And education. And the business of creating pulp (literally here) versus quality material.
I also can't help thinking of Thoreau deriding people who desperately reached for the "news" in Walden (chapter titled "Reading," I think) and/or Emerson who was so drawn (early in his life) to Carlyle. This would have been decades before Gissing, but not irrelevant. A discussion about the changing understanding of ancient rhetoric in ancient Greece and the relationship to changes in public education and literacy even then influences this comment.
You inspired me to flip through Walden. He has so much to say about what 'should' be read. "The best books are not read even by those who are called good readers. What does our Concord culture amount to?" Though at the end of "Reading" also seems to say we should not allow others (publishers, parson, pedagogues) to choose for us either.
Such an astute comment. After the second chapter, I still read this book as scathing satire, and reading it in that light made me believe this discourse about literature being bad for the people was exaggerated for the sake of humor. Now I wonder: How much of this discourse really was happening at that time, and if so, how openly and within which castes?
I’m struck by the deep bench of characters, the contrast to the economy of the modern novel. Maybe it works because books were a prized and pricey commodity? Readers were going to pore over them, share them, reread. Writers could afford some risks with readers’ attention. If a modern novel loses a reader, there’s a long, affordable queue of more-accessible work.
I’m digging in. Lots of Post-Its, so many Yules.
Yes! I was vaguely reminded of the cast and connections (and confusion) at the beginning of Wuthering Heights.
And the eight Ramsay children in To the Lighthouse--we had a thread about this in a previous APS Together. They survived turn-of-the-century infant mortality rates, but they wouldn’t make it through a writing workshop.
LOL!
Hahaha! ("So many Yules." made me laugh too.)
😂
An astute evocation (sadly!) of the modern reader's limited attention span, and the consequent writer's "dilemma" as one who cannot "afford to risk ... readers' attention." Perhaps this is the very "mental indigestion" (for readers and writers) that Alfred Yule, who is "by no means ... beyond the ripeness of his mental vigor," insists is the consequence of literature and its inducement to "moon over small print." Literature as the anti-thesis of "civilization" according to Alfred, indeed! Scathing satire or sardonic wit? Hmmm.
“Valley of the shadow of books” Psalm 23. Books as death. What is Jasper’s religion? The dollar, fame, success...
“Jasper was coming hither for the first time;” Hither is a word I miss.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/about-us/british-museum-story/architecture/reading-room So it appears you had to apply to use the British Museum Reading Room. It doesn’t appear that it was ever a public library.
I literally just finished reading Richard Rodriguez's The Hunger of Memory, in which he describes being pent up in the very same reading room. Eerily coincidental. Thanks for posting the link!
Wow! This is crazy but my Virginia Woolf group (it is a twitter group) is reading Night & Day and in today's reading it mentions the British Museum reading room as well. Is the universe sending us a message?
London is like a country village. Everyone goes to the same places.
And, you know the current scandals the British Museum is now caught up in! So much for “sacred” institutions.
No I didn’t. Thanks for pointing it out. Looks like the British Museum is a “royal mess” (excuse the pun)! https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/01/arts/british-museum-thefts.html
As I recall, Virginia Woolf grew up in a world of writers (envy) - so that jibes with a reading room life
She was familiar with his work. I read online that she reviewed New Grubb Street but I can't find it. Here is a quote from Woolf: “Gissing is one of the extremely rare novelists who believes in the power of the mind, who makes his people think” So far I'd agree!
Fascinating. Love the cast of notables who were "granted" access. The archived photo inspired my reading fantasies: becoming lost amidst an endless maze of books, mystery, and unknown pleasures. While I would never have been granted access to the Reading Room, in my imagination I am an "obvious dweller in the valley of the shadow of books." So appreciate the link!
Contradictions everywhere. In addition to the ones you all already mentioned, here's another: "by presuming too far upon the bodily vigor which prompted these activities, he passed of a sudden into the state of a confirmed invalid." If physical exercise is good for you, why is he debilitated by it? If reading is bad for you, why has he profited from it? If reading is bad for you, why does he participate (i.e. The Optimist)? Much of this is for humor, I think. (If I was chuckling in the first chapter, I was guffawing in the second chapter.) But there's an interesting philosophical argument re: mind vs body brewing here.
why is john yule in a dressing gown in the middle of the afternoon? I expect english eccentricities but I almost passed over it because post-pandemic, subconsciously I have reluctantly accepted that sweatpants and athleisure gear are acceptable attire when hosting guests and talking about the publishing industry.
You are too funny. I wore athleisure wear to the park today to do my reading. Really we all could be wearing dressing gowns all the time nowadays, I saw a grey and purple paisley I fancied last time I was in London, it would make a smashing long jacket!
A walk broken up by reading now and again is the perfect exercise! Breathing beautiful fall air not filled with smoke is heaven too. It was a perfect day!
I was in my Arsenal FC track jacket most of today so not sure I have any right to talk. But I do enjoy dressing up and I love ballroom dancing. Will there be dancing in New Grub Street??? I dare hope so!
You have many talents! From what I have read so far I don’t see a lot of dancing coming, but who knows?😂🤣
in my public high school, senior year, we all took ballroom dancing to prep for the prom. one dance all high school kids should learn is the Madison, featured in Godard's Band of Outsiders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1q9G2YmVqI
A line dance! Wouldn't it be great to have a jazzy soundtrack running in the background of our lives. Not sure if I would want the narration, though.
Earlier in the chapter: "On an autumn expedition in the Hebrides, he slept one night under the open sky, with the result that he had an all but fatal attack of rheumatic fever. After that, though the direction of his interests was unchanged, he could no longer set the example to Wattleborough youth of muscular manliness."
I took the robe to show John Yule's boistrous frustration at being in his reduced physical state. I suspect Gissing may have been less impressed by those who set examples of "muscular manliness." I do, however, like the surprisingly contemporary fashion statement Gissing gives to John Yule here!
it's a noteworthy paragraph. in it, gissing also says the brother has parchmenty skin -- never heard that before but it's so good.
Kind of liking Jasper in this chapter. He’s not intimidated by “important” people and maybe is a real writer as a trade of course. Loved the summary of the Yules brothers but was frustrated by Gissing’s failure to give the women first and last names at the same time. It’s either Mrs. X or FirstName without saying which Yule she goes with. And some have no first names at all. Is there a purpose behind this?
What a great name, Fadge. You can just hear it dripping in: “His utterance of the name ‘Mr. Fadge’ sufficiently intimated that he had some cause of personal discontent with the editor....” Can’t wait to find out what.
Rackett is also an evocative name!