Yes, I feel torn about Amy. On the one hand, I admire her push back against "accepted" notions of appropriateness - and agency - for women: “My life is being wasted. I ought to have a place in society of clever people. I was never meant to live quietly in the background.” / When she found herself alone and independent, her mind acted like a spring when pressure is removed." / And my favorite: “Best or worse, novels are all the same. Nothing but love, love, love; what silly nonsense it is! / What downright lies are accepted as indisputable! That about love being a woman’s whole life; who believes it really? Love is the most insignificant thing in most women’s lives.”
On the other hand, her exchange with Jasper (while brilliantly written) feels "bitchy" to me. She may "get" Jasper, but her "ironic" questioning, felt more 19th century "mean girl"/ passive-aggressive (to me), than affirming/supportive:
[Amy’s] eyes met Jasper’s, and she smiled significantly.
‘I should have thought your aim would have been far more ambitious,’ she said with distinct utterance.
‘Marian and I have been engaged for some time –practically.’
‘I imagined you wouldn’t marry for years, and then some distinguished person. This throws new light upon your character.’
‘She’s likely to shine in society? She is a brilliant girl, full of tact and insight?’
He looked dubiously at his companion.
‘Then you have abandoned your old ambitions?’ Amy pursued.
‘Not a bit of it. I am on my way to achieve them.’
‘And Marian is the ideal wife to assist you?’
Meeeow! Like a cat with her claws poised for attack. Hmmm.
I actually have the same question as Amy. What is Jasper doing with Marian? If his ambitions are in fact the same as those bluntly articulated to his sisters, Marian doesn’t fit the bill. What changed? If it is love then his ambitions have changed because he wanted a woman with more money than Marian has.
Amy is stealing this novel. Love her exchanges with Edith and Milvain. This is great: "He promised, and with exchange of smiles which were something like a challenge they took leave of each other." She is irresistibly charming kind of like Satan in Paradise Lost.
I did not expect New Grub Street to be so soapy. It's a page turner.
The poet Tracy K. Smith once said something about the "jealous feeling" — and I fear that I feel it toward the Reardons. Their inherited wealth gives them haughty airs (treatment toward servants, for example), which can be fun to read, in small doses. Was it in today's daily reading which talked about reading in order to escape reality? Was it Amy who claims people read outside of themselves... "Why do poor people care only for stories about the rich? The same principle.’" There's scorn and some condescension in the tone, which is deliciously evocative. Does Amy speak from direct or indirect experience? Does she speak for a class of readers? Does she speak for the reader? Does she even care about her audience? Does my jealousy matter to her?
This novel is also powerful social commentary. Amy is a very enlightened woman who would be at home in our epoch--advocating for women's liberty including the right to divorce. She must have been a controversial figure in the Victorian age. Yet the dialogue is always natural and perfectly pitched. This is not a didactic novel.
Some couples simply grow in different directions, especially when they marry young. Amy has developed her own intellectual and political interests. Divorce is still hard today, esp when it’s no fault and there are children. The characterization of Amy is ahead of its time.
Biffen and Whelpdale are great minor characters. They are the poor artists who stick to their writing in spite of hardships, even if Whelpdale has to sell writing manuals. Gissing has them popping up frequently. They actually would not do much better today, but in some states could get Obamacare.
Amy and Jasper’s chance encounter is not a chance meeting on Gissing’s part. So much is said here. Amy gets Jasper in a way even he doesn’t see. Does Jasper begin to question his decision?
Jasper's responses to Amy leave me bemused. Jasper seems befuddled - as if engaged in a continuous wrestling match between genuine feeling and his pragmatic "character." Perhaps, his pragmatic nature is not so "natural" after all? His claim, "I have lately received a promise of very valuable help," sounds disturbingly transactional, and yet, when framing his relationship with Marian, he proclaims: "Marian and I have been engaged for some time –practically." He seems to implicitly illuminate a bit of unexpected tenderness (vulnerability?) in admitting to such ongoing attraction/desire/care. And, yet (once again), the fulsomeness of his "love" appears "dubious" when the most he can state with respect to Amy's query regarding Marian's "ideal-ness" as a wife is: ‘From one point of view, yes.’
“Marian and I have been engaged for some time...practically. “Not really true. I thought this was how Jasper was justifying his engagement to Marian only after she received her money. “It enables us to marry sooner, that’s all.” I like your interpretation better. I hope Jasper is showing tenderness, but this whole exchange made me nervous.
Amy seems to be undermining the story's throughline that an escape from poverty might free one of its bitterness. Apparently she was disabused of love well before she came into money, evidenced by her poo-pooing popular novels at her friend Edith's expense ("I don't know how you can go on reading that sort of stuff, book after book.")
Amy appears to be ready to dispose of all of her friendships based on the way she excoriated Jasper for taking up with Marian ("I should have thought your aim would be four more ambitious." and "It throws a new light upon your character.")
I've got to give it to Jasper once again - he takes it on the chin and doesn't flinch! ("you thought me so desperately scheming and cold blooded?" and finally, when it was clear that Amy wasn’t going to let up - "... you prefer to prophesy after the event.")
It’s not just love that Amy appears to have an abandoned, but kindness. I’m not unaware of the secondary placement women in society (then and now) and the importance of advocating for equality, but spitefulness is a personal attribute and I don’t admire her for that.
In this Volume we first go back in time to before the announcement of the contents of the will. I was a bit confused about that.
The attractive Mrs. Yule abuses her servants and wishes death to Edwin over divorce for her daughter, and we remember that she lives in the opinions of others (besides presumably those of her servants).
Amy can't be seen socially as the one wanting or initiating divorce, and she continues to walk a fine line at the moment. I do not think this is a book -about- the characters, as say Elliot is deeply interested in hers. Gissing's characters seem forced to shift with the demands of his rhetoric.
Amy sees no real hope in her future with Edwin. It is hard not to agree.
"It's because women who are happily married can't and won't understand the position of those who are not that there's so much difficulty in reforming marriage laws."
It seems like there is some truth in this statement, but it leaves out a lot, too. The church, for one thing. Which wasn't run by women!
Like many of Gissing's remarks, it hits at an oblique angle, with an edge of truth as much as idiosyncrasy.
Amy is reading about new discoveries like Darwin's which were going against the old teachings of church and state. Another way in which she and Reardon are very different, he who seems to long to live in some imagined historical past.
Jasper, saying, I don't make mistakes. And Amy saying, we'll see about that.
I think she is right, and well within her rights, given their relationship from before, to speak to him that way. She is curious, forthright, a little flirty - and who would begrudge her a little flirtyness? Not me. I don't think her motive is to insult Marian. She readily admits to not knowing her. Her emphasis is on Jasper and his motives.
She knows better than anyone, besides his sisters, and Alfred Yule, that Jasper's motives are far from "unassailable."
Amid all of the focus on Amy, this narrative interjection about women's lives of the time was interesting:
"She was becoming a typical woman of the new time, the woman who has developed concurrently with journalistic enterprise."
Fashionable journalistic reading and writing (enterprise( was available to women even if formal education was less available. But they still don't necessarily sign their own names....
"In endeavoring to imbue her with his own literary tastes, Reardon instructed Amy as to the natural tendencies of her own mind, which till then she had not clearly understood. When she ceased to read with the eyes of passion, most of the things which were Reardon's supreme interests lost their value for her. A sound intelligence enabled her to think and feel in many directions..." I like Amy's intelligence and vivacity and wish she had more opportunity to use her talents. I think she should (and likely would) aim higher than social cleverness. At the same time, I find it hard to like her. Marian is much more to my taste, and, contrary to Amy's supposition, I think she is "a brilliant girl, full of tact and insight." That describes Marian quite well. What she lacks is Amy's caustic quality.
Yes, I feel torn about Amy. On the one hand, I admire her push back against "accepted" notions of appropriateness - and agency - for women: “My life is being wasted. I ought to have a place in society of clever people. I was never meant to live quietly in the background.” / When she found herself alone and independent, her mind acted like a spring when pressure is removed." / And my favorite: “Best or worse, novels are all the same. Nothing but love, love, love; what silly nonsense it is! / What downright lies are accepted as indisputable! That about love being a woman’s whole life; who believes it really? Love is the most insignificant thing in most women’s lives.”
On the other hand, her exchange with Jasper (while brilliantly written) feels "bitchy" to me. She may "get" Jasper, but her "ironic" questioning, felt more 19th century "mean girl"/ passive-aggressive (to me), than affirming/supportive:
[Amy’s] eyes met Jasper’s, and she smiled significantly.
‘I should have thought your aim would have been far more ambitious,’ she said with distinct utterance.
‘Marian and I have been engaged for some time –practically.’
‘I imagined you wouldn’t marry for years, and then some distinguished person. This throws new light upon your character.’
‘She’s likely to shine in society? She is a brilliant girl, full of tact and insight?’
He looked dubiously at his companion.
‘Then you have abandoned your old ambitions?’ Amy pursued.
‘Not a bit of it. I am on my way to achieve them.’
‘And Marian is the ideal wife to assist you?’
Meeeow! Like a cat with her claws poised for attack. Hmmm.
I actually have the same question as Amy. What is Jasper doing with Marian? If his ambitions are in fact the same as those bluntly articulated to his sisters, Marian doesn’t fit the bill. What changed? If it is love then his ambitions have changed because he wanted a woman with more money than Marian has.
Great observation! I always feel so trivial when I write about clothing...love that Gissing is giving me permission.
Amy is stealing this novel. Love her exchanges with Edith and Milvain. This is great: "He promised, and with exchange of smiles which were something like a challenge they took leave of each other." She is irresistibly charming kind of like Satan in Paradise Lost.
I did not expect New Grub Street to be so soapy. It's a page turner.
The poet Tracy K. Smith once said something about the "jealous feeling" — and I fear that I feel it toward the Reardons. Their inherited wealth gives them haughty airs (treatment toward servants, for example), which can be fun to read, in small doses. Was it in today's daily reading which talked about reading in order to escape reality? Was it Amy who claims people read outside of themselves... "Why do poor people care only for stories about the rich? The same principle.’" There's scorn and some condescension in the tone, which is deliciously evocative. Does Amy speak from direct or indirect experience? Does she speak for a class of readers? Does she speak for the reader? Does she even care about her audience? Does my jealousy matter to her?
This novel is also powerful social commentary. Amy is a very enlightened woman who would be at home in our epoch--advocating for women's liberty including the right to divorce. She must have been a controversial figure in the Victorian age. Yet the dialogue is always natural and perfectly pitched. This is not a didactic novel.
Some couples simply grow in different directions, especially when they marry young. Amy has developed her own intellectual and political interests. Divorce is still hard today, esp when it’s no fault and there are children. The characterization of Amy is ahead of its time.
Biffen and Whelpdale are great minor characters. They are the poor artists who stick to their writing in spite of hardships, even if Whelpdale has to sell writing manuals. Gissing has them popping up frequently. They actually would not do much better today, but in some states could get Obamacare.
Amy and Jasper’s chance encounter is not a chance meeting on Gissing’s part. So much is said here. Amy gets Jasper in a way even he doesn’t see. Does Jasper begin to question his decision?
Jasper's responses to Amy leave me bemused. Jasper seems befuddled - as if engaged in a continuous wrestling match between genuine feeling and his pragmatic "character." Perhaps, his pragmatic nature is not so "natural" after all? His claim, "I have lately received a promise of very valuable help," sounds disturbingly transactional, and yet, when framing his relationship with Marian, he proclaims: "Marian and I have been engaged for some time –practically." He seems to implicitly illuminate a bit of unexpected tenderness (vulnerability?) in admitting to such ongoing attraction/desire/care. And, yet (once again), the fulsomeness of his "love" appears "dubious" when the most he can state with respect to Amy's query regarding Marian's "ideal-ness" as a wife is: ‘From one point of view, yes.’
Oh, NO! What is the one point of view, Jasper?
“Marian and I have been engaged for some time...practically. “Not really true. I thought this was how Jasper was justifying his engagement to Marian only after she received her money. “It enables us to marry sooner, that’s all.” I like your interpretation better. I hope Jasper is showing tenderness, but this whole exchange made me nervous.
It makes me nervous too!
In the UK they'd be getting free health care from their government : )
A blessing for struggling artists!
I'm coming to believe that no one writes ambivalence as well as Gissing!
“A poor four hundred a year, perhaps; mere decency of obscure existence, unless her husband could glorify it by winning fame.”
So it’s fame and fortune for Amy. But not love. “what silly nonsense it is! Why don’t people write about the really important things of life?”
I want Marion to swoop in and ask her “What do you understand by love?”
Amy seems to be undermining the story's throughline that an escape from poverty might free one of its bitterness. Apparently she was disabused of love well before she came into money, evidenced by her poo-pooing popular novels at her friend Edith's expense ("I don't know how you can go on reading that sort of stuff, book after book.")
Amy appears to be ready to dispose of all of her friendships based on the way she excoriated Jasper for taking up with Marian ("I should have thought your aim would be four more ambitious." and "It throws a new light upon your character.")
I've got to give it to Jasper once again - he takes it on the chin and doesn't flinch! ("you thought me so desperately scheming and cold blooded?" and finally, when it was clear that Amy wasn’t going to let up - "... you prefer to prophesy after the event.")
It’s not just love that Amy appears to have an abandoned, but kindness. I’m not unaware of the secondary placement women in society (then and now) and the importance of advocating for equality, but spitefulness is a personal attribute and I don’t admire her for that.
In this Volume we first go back in time to before the announcement of the contents of the will. I was a bit confused about that.
The attractive Mrs. Yule abuses her servants and wishes death to Edwin over divorce for her daughter, and we remember that she lives in the opinions of others (besides presumably those of her servants).
Amy can't be seen socially as the one wanting or initiating divorce, and she continues to walk a fine line at the moment. I do not think this is a book -about- the characters, as say Elliot is deeply interested in hers. Gissing's characters seem forced to shift with the demands of his rhetoric.
Amy sees no real hope in her future with Edwin. It is hard not to agree.
"It's because women who are happily married can't and won't understand the position of those who are not that there's so much difficulty in reforming marriage laws."
It seems like there is some truth in this statement, but it leaves out a lot, too. The church, for one thing. Which wasn't run by women!
Like many of Gissing's remarks, it hits at an oblique angle, with an edge of truth as much as idiosyncrasy.
Amy is reading about new discoveries like Darwin's which were going against the old teachings of church and state. Another way in which she and Reardon are very different, he who seems to long to live in some imagined historical past.
Jasper, saying, I don't make mistakes. And Amy saying, we'll see about that.
I think she is right, and well within her rights, given their relationship from before, to speak to him that way. She is curious, forthright, a little flirty - and who would begrudge her a little flirtyness? Not me. I don't think her motive is to insult Marian. She readily admits to not knowing her. Her emphasis is on Jasper and his motives.
She knows better than anyone, besides his sisters, and Alfred Yule, that Jasper's motives are far from "unassailable."
I had written "flirtiness" but the spell checker changed it to "flintiness" without my noticing. But it didn't try to change "flirtyness"
Amid all of the focus on Amy, this narrative interjection about women's lives of the time was interesting:
"She was becoming a typical woman of the new time, the woman who has developed concurrently with journalistic enterprise."
Fashionable journalistic reading and writing (enterprise( was available to women even if formal education was less available. But they still don't necessarily sign their own names....
"In endeavoring to imbue her with his own literary tastes, Reardon instructed Amy as to the natural tendencies of her own mind, which till then she had not clearly understood. When she ceased to read with the eyes of passion, most of the things which were Reardon's supreme interests lost their value for her. A sound intelligence enabled her to think and feel in many directions..." I like Amy's intelligence and vivacity and wish she had more opportunity to use her talents. I think she should (and likely would) aim higher than social cleverness. At the same time, I find it hard to like her. Marian is much more to my taste, and, contrary to Amy's supposition, I think she is "a brilliant girl, full of tact and insight." That describes Marian quite well. What she lacks is Amy's caustic quality.