Alfred Yule, one of my least favorite characters in fiction. By comparison, Satan in Paradise Lost is attractive. It's hard to pity a man who blames everyone but himself for his failures.
I was so enjoying Marian standing up to her father on her and her mom’s behalf only to have her spin on a dime by thinking dad might be right and then fretting over Jasper.
Marion about Jasper: “The cold exhibition of ignoble scheming will repel many a woman who, for her own heart’s desire, is capable of that same compromise with her strict sense of honour.” She considers how many women marry for material gain. Jasper is upfront about his need for money. Is Marion being clear-eyed or naive?
I flagged this same passage. I feel somehow that in Marian's case, perhaps, it is possible to be both "clear-eyed" and "naive." Dueling tensions, roiling within, as it were.
Clear eyed: “Jasper had from the first been *so frank* with her, had so often repeated that money was *at present* his chief need ... It was plain that Jasper could not think of marrying until his position and prospects were greatly improved … What folly it would be to draw back if circumstances led him to avow what hitherto he has so slightly disguised."
Naive: "She had the conviction that he valued her for her own sake; if the obstacles between them could be removed, what matter how?”
Cascading sentences. Reason dances with emotion. True love? Who knows? I feel dubious, but cling to hope in the possibility of a love that transcends the crass realities of transactional materialism. Marian's spirit and intelligence deserves authentic appreciation- and genuine love.
I am convinced of the mutual admiration between Jasper and Marian, but there is no way to tell how poverty or the protection from poverty will play out in their relationship. Through my rose-colored glasses, I see Jasper wishing for the money that would justify his expression of love for Marian, and I see Marian already willing to come to Jasper’s defense when things get difficult.
What an incredible bunch of family connections and disconnections this novel holds. Milvains, Yules, Reardons, and Amy’s tribe. Marian: well, that Apple rolled a little further from the paternal tree. Her naivety about men due largely to her father’s suffocating, tyrannical possession of her.
"It cost Marian a terrible effort to address her father in these terms. When he turned fiercely upon her, she shrank back and felt as if strength must fail her even to stand." Nothing is as terrifying to a child - or an inner child - as an angry parent.
Yes! I have sooooo many questions. Do you think Milvain was sincere when he said he didn’t write that review? Is Marian getting played? The Dad’s word of caution seems like he knows more than is letting in. Why does Marian fear of a “darker prospect” if her father became wealthy? Her father says he is “physically” as well as mentally suffering.. is he sick?
"unable to play the part of an encourager..." [Marian]
Gissing does stuffy English language mode well when he wants to. Hopefully Gissing, when translated into some more mellifluous-sounding like Italian or French, doesn't lose the sometimes- clanging quality.
When I read "Milvain was quite capable of playing fast and loose with a girl, and Marian" I thought, that seems like very contemporary language for a Victorian novel, only to learn that its origins go back to Shakespeare. So much for what I know! LOL!
Despite Marian's persistence in making her case to her father on her mother's behalf, Alfred answers each point with rehearsed defenses from years of internal dialogue.
It's so sad that the effort he puts into manufacturing and maintaining the justifications for his ill-treatment of his wife must equal the effort that it would take for him to treat her kindly.
Mr. Yule in his self-pity and scapegoating, jeopardizes his relationship with Marian, which he supposedly values so highly. "If he lost Marian, he would indeed be a lonely man, for he considered his wife of no account." He deepens his antagonism with Marian and we see even more clearly his despicable feelings toward Mrs. Yule.
Yes, their relationship tugged at my heart; Yule recognizes his own loneliness (self-induced!) yet "demanded an entire allegiance from his daughter; he could not bear to think that her zeal on his behalf was diminishing, that perhaps she was beginning to regard his work as futile and antiquated in comparison with that of the new generation.” A sad, diminishing man, unable to embrace the potential beauty of a father-daughter relationship that could enrich his sense of self, purpose, and pleasure of living - if only, he supported Marian's intelligence, spirit, and love, rather than obsessing over public expectations of a "successful literary man."
From my own experience, the power/beauty of an unconditionally loving father is invaluable (life affirming!) and opens the richness of world in ways that are unparalleled.
As to Mrs. Goby, I’m speculating that she’s similar to Amy‘s mother in her treatment of her help, and that Annie Rudd was probably justified in her escape.
Why does Mrs. Goby have to come back a second time to harass poor Mrs. Yule in person? Hardly seems necessary.
Thank goodness, off the page.
This remark, when Marian is talking to her mother, speculating on what might happen if Alfred became rich:
"If more acquaintances came to his house, what would that matter? It isn't as if he wished for fashionable society. They would be literary people, and why ever shouldn't you meet with them?"
Not sure who this is more insulting to, Mrs. Yule or literary people!
This line:"Had she read or heard of a girl who went so far in concessions, Marian would have turned away, her delicacy offended."
Marian has somehow in the middle of London had an extremely sheltered upbringing and has fallen for Jasper, the first interesting young man she meets who has paid her any attention. We know that Jasper really is or was strongly attracted to Marian but would not allow himself to follow his inclinations because he is on the path to fame and wealth and a romantic distraction would hold him back. But now we understand it is because she is not rich that he made no further move. And now she understands it too in some way, and doesn't care.
Edwin and Reardon should get together. They can spend their time discussing how their wives and Milvain are responsible for all their misery and failure.
"Fear and trembling possessed her--the sick, faint dread always excited by her husband's wrath..."
I feel for Mrs. Yule and Marian, living with an abusive person. They can never be at ease, and Marian is so right when she exclaims, "I must speak! We can't live in this terror." She speaks very well, too, very wisely, pointing out that while he doesn't beat or threaten them with physical harm, he subjects them to an "unchanging gloom which always seems on the point of breaking into violence." Unfortunately, her words are not likely to have much, if any, effect. Alfred would need a humility he doesn't possess to hear and take them to heart.
Alfred Yule, one of my least favorite characters in fiction. By comparison, Satan in Paradise Lost is attractive. It's hard to pity a man who blames everyone but himself for his failures.
he's a petty tyrant?
i need a good, satisfying death.
Satan is really quite likable in PL!
I was so enjoying Marian standing up to her father on her and her mom’s behalf only to have her spin on a dime by thinking dad might be right and then fretting over Jasper.
Marion about Jasper: “The cold exhibition of ignoble scheming will repel many a woman who, for her own heart’s desire, is capable of that same compromise with her strict sense of honour.” She considers how many women marry for material gain. Jasper is upfront about his need for money. Is Marion being clear-eyed or naive?
I flagged this same passage. I feel somehow that in Marian's case, perhaps, it is possible to be both "clear-eyed" and "naive." Dueling tensions, roiling within, as it were.
Clear eyed: “Jasper had from the first been *so frank* with her, had so often repeated that money was *at present* his chief need ... It was plain that Jasper could not think of marrying until his position and prospects were greatly improved … What folly it would be to draw back if circumstances led him to avow what hitherto he has so slightly disguised."
Naive: "She had the conviction that he valued her for her own sake; if the obstacles between them could be removed, what matter how?”
Cascading sentences. Reason dances with emotion. True love? Who knows? I feel dubious, but cling to hope in the possibility of a love that transcends the crass realities of transactional materialism. Marian's spirit and intelligence deserves authentic appreciation- and genuine love.
Gissing a master of "dueling tensions"? That phrase would fit a lot of his commentary in this book so far!
Thank you for unpacking that line - it kind of made my brain hurt when I read it the first time!
I am convinced of the mutual admiration between Jasper and Marian, but there is no way to tell how poverty or the protection from poverty will play out in their relationship. Through my rose-colored glasses, I see Jasper wishing for the money that would justify his expression of love for Marian, and I see Marian already willing to come to Jasper’s defense when things get difficult.
Love a solid "rose-colored glasses" perspective!
What an incredible bunch of family connections and disconnections this novel holds. Milvains, Yules, Reardons, and Amy’s tribe. Marian: well, that Apple rolled a little further from the paternal tree. Her naivety about men due largely to her father’s suffocating, tyrannical possession of her.
"It cost Marian a terrible effort to address her father in these terms. When he turned fiercely upon her, she shrank back and felt as if strength must fail her even to stand." Nothing is as terrifying to a child - or an inner child - as an angry parent.
I feel we should give Gissing credit for the way he is building tension into this narrative. Who among us wasn't tempted to read ahead?
Yes!
Yes! I have sooooo many questions. Do you think Milvain was sincere when he said he didn’t write that review? Is Marian getting played? The Dad’s word of caution seems like he knows more than is letting in. Why does Marian fear of a “darker prospect” if her father became wealthy? Her father says he is “physically” as well as mentally suffering.. is he sick?
Yes, I wake up each morning excited to enter New Grub Street's world and see what will unfold. Totally tempted to peak ahead today!
"a rising periodicalist..." [Jasper]
"unable to play the part of an encourager..." [Marian]
Gissing does stuffy English language mode well when he wants to. Hopefully Gissing, when translated into some more mellifluous-sounding like Italian or French, doesn't lose the sometimes- clanging quality.
When I read "Milvain was quite capable of playing fast and loose with a girl, and Marian" I thought, that seems like very contemporary language for a Victorian novel, only to learn that its origins go back to Shakespeare. So much for what I know! LOL!
hahaha! reminds me of gissing calling an apartment a crib earlier in the novel.
Despite Marian's persistence in making her case to her father on her mother's behalf, Alfred answers each point with rehearsed defenses from years of internal dialogue.
It's so sad that the effort he puts into manufacturing and maintaining the justifications for his ill-treatment of his wife must equal the effort that it would take for him to treat her kindly.
Mr. Yule in his self-pity and scapegoating, jeopardizes his relationship with Marian, which he supposedly values so highly. "If he lost Marian, he would indeed be a lonely man, for he considered his wife of no account." He deepens his antagonism with Marian and we see even more clearly his despicable feelings toward Mrs. Yule.
Yes, their relationship tugged at my heart; Yule recognizes his own loneliness (self-induced!) yet "demanded an entire allegiance from his daughter; he could not bear to think that her zeal on his behalf was diminishing, that perhaps she was beginning to regard his work as futile and antiquated in comparison with that of the new generation.” A sad, diminishing man, unable to embrace the potential beauty of a father-daughter relationship that could enrich his sense of self, purpose, and pleasure of living - if only, he supported Marian's intelligence, spirit, and love, rather than obsessing over public expectations of a "successful literary man."
From my own experience, the power/beauty of an unconditionally loving father is invaluable (life affirming!) and opens the richness of world in ways that are unparalleled.
As to Mrs. Goby, I’m speculating that she’s similar to Amy‘s mother in her treatment of her help, and that Annie Rudd was probably justified in her escape.
I was thinking the same and I'm hoping that Mrs. Yule will also be able to escape and go live with her sister.
Why does Mrs. Goby have to come back a second time to harass poor Mrs. Yule in person? Hardly seems necessary.
Thank goodness, off the page.
This remark, when Marian is talking to her mother, speculating on what might happen if Alfred became rich:
"If more acquaintances came to his house, what would that matter? It isn't as if he wished for fashionable society. They would be literary people, and why ever shouldn't you meet with them?"
Not sure who this is more insulting to, Mrs. Yule or literary people!
This line:"Had she read or heard of a girl who went so far in concessions, Marian would have turned away, her delicacy offended."
Marian has somehow in the middle of London had an extremely sheltered upbringing and has fallen for Jasper, the first interesting young man she meets who has paid her any attention. We know that Jasper really is or was strongly attracted to Marian but would not allow himself to follow his inclinations because he is on the path to fame and wealth and a romantic distraction would hold him back. But now we understand it is because she is not rich that he made no further move. And now she understands it too in some way, and doesn't care.
Is this being "practical" as Gissing suggests?
We are shown the pitfalls of not being practical by the Reardons, perhaps they are the wiser ones.
Edwin and Reardon should get together. They can spend their time discussing how their wives and Milvain are responsible for all their misery and failure.
"Fear and trembling possessed her--the sick, faint dread always excited by her husband's wrath..."
I feel for Mrs. Yule and Marian, living with an abusive person. They can never be at ease, and Marian is so right when she exclaims, "I must speak! We can't live in this terror." She speaks very well, too, very wisely, pointing out that while he doesn't beat or threaten them with physical harm, he subjects them to an "unchanging gloom which always seems on the point of breaking into violence." Unfortunately, her words are not likely to have much, if any, effect. Alfred would need a humility he doesn't possess to hear and take them to heart.