Jasper and Amy shared the need for a place in society, and no one in that society cares to know about the buried bodies and broken hearts that form the foundation of their opulent position.
Dora and Whelpdale seem to have hit the sweet spot from our perspective, despite Jasper's assessment that Whelpdale, "as regards Society" will be a drag upon Dora.
To me, the enduring scene will be Jasper and Amy reveling In their precious social environs - Amy "At 40, at 50, ...would be one of the stateliest of dames." "Her words were uttered with just enough deliberation to give them the value of an opinion; she smiled with a delicious shade of irony; her glance intimated that nothing could be too subtle for her understanding."
But the words that will stay with me are "Marian was only a clever school-girl."
Some of us were wondering about why Biffen is shown stepping over a dying man’s body. Here is Katherine Mullin’s take on it from the Introduction to my book (which I just read due to spoilers):
“Biffen’s commitment to his art is touching, his sacrifice tragic. But black humor points up an uncomfortable disjunction between Biffen‘s dedication to ‘an absolute realism’ treating ‘ordinary vulgar life with fidelity and seriousness’ and his actual reaction to ‘ordinary vulgar life’ when he finds it sprawled in a drunken stupor and blocking his way to rescuing his precious manuscript from a house fire. Life as Biffen has represented it has more value to him than the life of an (admittedly unappealing) representative of the ‘essentially unheroic masses he seeks to describe.”
Gissing gives Marian a soft landing. What a great job for her. She won’t have to write in a relentless way, and she will hopefully meet some intellectual, single guys in the library. And now that Alfred is gone, they will consider taking care of a sweet mother/mother-in-law less of a burden.
Amy is being catty and cruel, blaming Marian for almost ruining Jasper’s life. Ridiculous! Can I say I have not taken a swipe at a lover’s ex?
Raymond Williams had laudatory comments on New Grub Street, and noticed the dramatization of the realists vs Jasper, the “new” kind of writer. I’m wondering whether there is moral good in reading books about the publishing world, which dramatizes the poorest segment of society -- the artists. In the age of new media, are creators grappling with the question of whether they are paragons of virtue? At the outset I had hoped that Gissing would do what Flaubert suggests all art should do, that is move the stars to pity. I come away from New Grub Street with a less starry eyed view of the world, which I am thankful for.
A perfect ending. Gissing’s brilliance prevails to the final moment of “dreamy bliss.” Social realism with an implicit (ever-present) critique of “such an admirable social order.” Yiyun captures the essence of the novel perfectly: “real and metaphorical bodies on the battlefield of literature.” So human. Odd that it feels so satisfying, and yet, it does.
[Wise Dora!]: ‘Who ever disputed the value of money? But there are things one mustn’t sacrifice to it.’
[My favorite moment] Whelpdale “frantic with exultation.” / “Eternal gratitude to all and sundry of the girls who have plunged me into wretchedness!”
[Amy]: “beauty … independent of youthfulness” / “consummate grace” / “queenly favour” / “delicious shade of irony” (her smile) / “nothing … too subtle for her understanding” / “matchless wife" / [catty, mean girl] - 'Perhaps! as a school-girl loves. But you never loved her.' / "independence [is] the root of happiness."
[Jasper]: “The glorious privilege of being independent” / ‘If I don’t mind, I shall fall into Whelpdale’s vein, and talk about my “blessedness.” Ha! isn’t the world a glorious place?’
The world. People. Relationships. Reality. Warts and all. Indeed!
Bravo Gissing for not giving us some sugar-coated morality play. Like Jasper says, "success has nothing whatever to do with moral deserts". Reardon and Biffen were good men, dedicated and hardworking but they still lost. Gissing could have made Biffen's last book a winner, because we all love him, but that isn't reality. They were both mediocre writers. Marian is a good person and will spend her days working a decent job taking care of her remaining parent. No mention of heaven or prince charming... just taking care of mom. Mean spirited Fadge gets fame and is the "Week's Celebrity". Amy's catty ways gets her the status she wanted and Jasper's lackluster writing skills are irrelevant because he knows that good guys finish last and he knows how to play the game. Gissing doesn't cater to romantic notions, like Biffen, he is writing about reality.
I finds Jasper and Amy’s smugness truly obnoxious. Jasper at least has worked hard to get where he is; all Amy has done is inherit money.
I also think both are vile in putting down Marian. Completely unnecessary. And Amy’s seeming lack of sadness about the death of her child is pretty cold.
Mea culpa. I hereby renounce all of my previous defenses of Amy. She is not a good person. Jasper has always been Jasper though he sunk to a new low in his characterizations of Marian in order to please Amy.
Great phrase: “conventional suavities.” I shall have to use it one of these days--though my own conversations do not fit into that category. LOL.
At least we can all be grateful for Nora and Whelpdale. He’s a little over the top, but they’re both decent people and that is saying a lot in the context of this book!
The ending was perfect for it's realism- often the least deserving prosper. I got an "It's A Wonderful Life" chuckle out of Marian ending up a librarian because she didn't marry Jasper (The horror!).
Am I the only one who thinks Marian lives in Jasper and Amy's marriage? Maybe that's my hope.
"Jasper had changed considerably in appearance since that last holiday that he spent in his mother's house at Finden. At present, he would have been taken for five-and-thirty, though only in his twenty-ninth year; his hair was noticeably thinning; his moustache had grown heavier; a wrinkle or two showed beneath his eyes..." How odd and perhaps telling that this is how Gissing introduces the triumphant Jasper. A little dig at the successful man? Aging fast? Not a paragon. He and Amy are perfectly suited to one another, so their marriage is, at least, apt. "Jasper lay back in dreamy bliss." It is purposely over the top, given all his less fortunate and deceased acquaintances.
This was my first group reading (is there a name for this process?) and it exceeded my expectations. I went into it for the shared discipline of reading a chapter each day, and it did that, but I most enjoyed the commenting and the ‘liking’ with you literature buffs. Completely new to me, and a real kick.
Yes, the Milvains, thanks mostly to Jasper's efforts, triumphed over all. A real family success story.
The man did what he said he was going to do, and if there are bodies strewn about here and there, they are only the necessary casualties of Jasper's own fears.
At least that's what I think : )
Earlier today I read Virginia Woolf's essay on Gissing from 1912. She claims that Gissing never pretends that he doesn't hate the poor. "Can anyone hate poverty with all their soul who doesn't hate the poor?" She goes on. "There is no sentimentalism about the fundamental equality of men in his works." Been poor is more than just starving to death; it robs one of humanity, the thing that makes it possible to be a social creature among other social creatures. She also claims that the "measure of [Gissing's] bitterness is the measure of his love for good."
So that's something nice to think about, that Gissing had a love for good, and if he looked around him and didn't see very much of it, sometimes, we admit, we don't, either.
I'll end with another Woolf quote from the same essay."The thing that really matters, that makes a writer a true writer and his work permanent, is that he should really see."
It's been an absolute joy and pleasure reading this book, one that I would never have read on my own, with Yiyun's guiding comments and all of you here. Thank you!
A happy ending for Jasper and Amy.
Jasper and Amy shared the need for a place in society, and no one in that society cares to know about the buried bodies and broken hearts that form the foundation of their opulent position.
Dora and Whelpdale seem to have hit the sweet spot from our perspective, despite Jasper's assessment that Whelpdale, "as regards Society" will be a drag upon Dora.
To me, the enduring scene will be Jasper and Amy reveling In their precious social environs - Amy "At 40, at 50, ...would be one of the stateliest of dames." "Her words were uttered with just enough deliberation to give them the value of an opinion; she smiled with a delicious shade of irony; her glance intimated that nothing could be too subtle for her understanding."
But the words that will stay with me are "Marian was only a clever school-girl."
Some of us were wondering about why Biffen is shown stepping over a dying man’s body. Here is Katherine Mullin’s take on it from the Introduction to my book (which I just read due to spoilers):
“Biffen’s commitment to his art is touching, his sacrifice tragic. But black humor points up an uncomfortable disjunction between Biffen‘s dedication to ‘an absolute realism’ treating ‘ordinary vulgar life with fidelity and seriousness’ and his actual reaction to ‘ordinary vulgar life’ when he finds it sprawled in a drunken stupor and blocking his way to rescuing his precious manuscript from a house fire. Life as Biffen has represented it has more value to him than the life of an (admittedly unappealing) representative of the ‘essentially unheroic masses he seeks to describe.”
Gissing gives Marian a soft landing. What a great job for her. She won’t have to write in a relentless way, and she will hopefully meet some intellectual, single guys in the library. And now that Alfred is gone, they will consider taking care of a sweet mother/mother-in-law less of a burden.
Amy is being catty and cruel, blaming Marian for almost ruining Jasper’s life. Ridiculous! Can I say I have not taken a swipe at a lover’s ex?
Raymond Williams had laudatory comments on New Grub Street, and noticed the dramatization of the realists vs Jasper, the “new” kind of writer. I’m wondering whether there is moral good in reading books about the publishing world, which dramatizes the poorest segment of society -- the artists. In the age of new media, are creators grappling with the question of whether they are paragons of virtue? At the outset I had hoped that Gissing would do what Flaubert suggests all art should do, that is move the stars to pity. I come away from New Grub Street with a less starry eyed view of the world, which I am thankful for.
A perfect ending. Gissing’s brilliance prevails to the final moment of “dreamy bliss.” Social realism with an implicit (ever-present) critique of “such an admirable social order.” Yiyun captures the essence of the novel perfectly: “real and metaphorical bodies on the battlefield of literature.” So human. Odd that it feels so satisfying, and yet, it does.
[Wise Dora!]: ‘Who ever disputed the value of money? But there are things one mustn’t sacrifice to it.’
[My favorite moment] Whelpdale “frantic with exultation.” / “Eternal gratitude to all and sundry of the girls who have plunged me into wretchedness!”
[Amy]: “beauty … independent of youthfulness” / “consummate grace” / “queenly favour” / “delicious shade of irony” (her smile) / “nothing … too subtle for her understanding” / “matchless wife" / [catty, mean girl] - 'Perhaps! as a school-girl loves. But you never loved her.' / "independence [is] the root of happiness."
[Jasper]: “The glorious privilege of being independent” / ‘If I don’t mind, I shall fall into Whelpdale’s vein, and talk about my “blessedness.” Ha! isn’t the world a glorious place?’
The world. People. Relationships. Reality. Warts and all. Indeed!
Bravo Gissing for not giving us some sugar-coated morality play. Like Jasper says, "success has nothing whatever to do with moral deserts". Reardon and Biffen were good men, dedicated and hardworking but they still lost. Gissing could have made Biffen's last book a winner, because we all love him, but that isn't reality. They were both mediocre writers. Marian is a good person and will spend her days working a decent job taking care of her remaining parent. No mention of heaven or prince charming... just taking care of mom. Mean spirited Fadge gets fame and is the "Week's Celebrity". Amy's catty ways gets her the status she wanted and Jasper's lackluster writing skills are irrelevant because he knows that good guys finish last and he knows how to play the game. Gissing doesn't cater to romantic notions, like Biffen, he is writing about reality.
I finds Jasper and Amy’s smugness truly obnoxious. Jasper at least has worked hard to get where he is; all Amy has done is inherit money.
I also think both are vile in putting down Marian. Completely unnecessary. And Amy’s seeming lack of sadness about the death of her child is pretty cold.
Mea culpa. I hereby renounce all of my previous defenses of Amy. She is not a good person. Jasper has always been Jasper though he sunk to a new low in his characterizations of Marian in order to please Amy.
Great phrase: “conventional suavities.” I shall have to use it one of these days--though my own conversations do not fit into that category. LOL.
At least we can all be grateful for Nora and Whelpdale. He’s a little over the top, but they’re both decent people and that is saying a lot in the context of this book!
And they lived happily ever after.*
*as long as they had money and were alive.
What great read! Thank you all for the company.
The ending was perfect for it's realism- often the least deserving prosper. I got an "It's A Wonderful Life" chuckle out of Marian ending up a librarian because she didn't marry Jasper (The horror!).
Am I the only one who thinks Marian lives in Jasper and Amy's marriage? Maybe that's my hope.
"Jasper had changed considerably in appearance since that last holiday that he spent in his mother's house at Finden. At present, he would have been taken for five-and-thirty, though only in his twenty-ninth year; his hair was noticeably thinning; his moustache had grown heavier; a wrinkle or two showed beneath his eyes..." How odd and perhaps telling that this is how Gissing introduces the triumphant Jasper. A little dig at the successful man? Aging fast? Not a paragon. He and Amy are perfectly suited to one another, so their marriage is, at least, apt. "Jasper lay back in dreamy bliss." It is purposely over the top, given all his less fortunate and deceased acquaintances.
This was my first group reading (is there a name for this process?) and it exceeded my expectations. I went into it for the shared discipline of reading a chapter each day, and it did that, but I most enjoyed the commenting and the ‘liking’ with you literature buffs. Completely new to me, and a real kick.
Yes, the Milvains, thanks mostly to Jasper's efforts, triumphed over all. A real family success story.
The man did what he said he was going to do, and if there are bodies strewn about here and there, they are only the necessary casualties of Jasper's own fears.
At least that's what I think : )
Earlier today I read Virginia Woolf's essay on Gissing from 1912. She claims that Gissing never pretends that he doesn't hate the poor. "Can anyone hate poverty with all their soul who doesn't hate the poor?" She goes on. "There is no sentimentalism about the fundamental equality of men in his works." Been poor is more than just starving to death; it robs one of humanity, the thing that makes it possible to be a social creature among other social creatures. She also claims that the "measure of [Gissing's] bitterness is the measure of his love for good."
So that's something nice to think about, that Gissing had a love for good, and if he looked around him and didn't see very much of it, sometimes, we admit, we don't, either.
I'll end with another Woolf quote from the same essay."The thing that really matters, that makes a writer a true writer and his work permanent, is that he should really see."
It's been an absolute joy and pleasure reading this book, one that I would never have read on my own, with Yiyun's guiding comments and all of you here. Thank you!
What a masterpiece this book is! I laughed, I cried, I enjoyed every moment of it, reading along with you wonderful people.
Thanks everyone! I really enjoy reading with you.
See you next time.
Great sharing this book with everyone. Hope to read more books together next year.