Mar 15, 2023·edited Mar 15, 2023Liked by Michael Moore
So far, I don't see much Divine Providence at work in the novel. Renzo uses his wits to escape trouble (after stumbling into it). I did think it was a bit miraculous he found the river, but that's because I'm directionally challenged and probably would have missed it. Also, he seems to especially give credit to God for helping him find a job, but we were told from the very beginning that his cousin had been long suggesting that he work with him.
I too see more of a suggestion that it's human beings who muck things up, or save the day ... but if Renzo and Lucia ever come out of this enormous mess intact, I may have to credit Divine Providence....
There is something providential happening when Renzo hears the sounds of the river Adda....."It's the Adda!" he exclaimed. It was like finding a long-lost friend, a brother, a savior......". He is able to go on his way like a new man.
This is a chapter in which Manzoni is a great advocate of the power of prayer. When Lorenzo is in a state of fear, he restores his equanimity by reciting prayers for the dead.
Maybe the role of Providence is just this. Once when I visited Chartres Cathedral, one of Europe's finest Gothic cathedrals that has endured in its current form pretty much intact through the Jacobins' Cult of Reason and two world wars, we enjoyed a wonderful tour and explanation of the magnificent structure and stained glass by a distinguished Oxford Don. At one pint he stopped and pointed at a glass fronted cabinet that we could not access because it happened to be obstructed by scaffolding. It was obscured by darkness; seemingly, it was attracting no interest. He said that in that display was the Virgin Mary's veil. Then he added, go ahead and smirk, but people's' belief that that cloth is the Virgin's original and genuine veil is the reason this edifice we've been enjoying was built and maintained, the reason it exists, for this cathedral is a monument to that sacred object.
Enzo's struggle to pray before bed made me smile. When I was growing up religious, praying before bed was such a challenge for me. For some reason, like swallowing a toad. I could hardly bear to do it.
“They call us baggiani, blockheads...how come it hasn’t changed? So far it hasn’t. Maybe with time. Maybe with the next generation...”. I think not. A poignant description of the age-old challenges of the immigrant and anyone considered to be other.
Renzo is full into his hero’s journey--entering a forest that repels him, where “The trees in the distance looked like strange, twisted monsters.” Struggling with the “undefined horror that his spirit had been fighting for hours...on the verge of losing his mind, but frightened most of all by his own fear.” But he pulls through to then calmly ponder what to do. And what a night he spends in that dilapidated hut on a bed prepared by Providence, “On what was supposed to have been the fifth night of marriage!” It’s all so symbolic, and even more so in the manner he crosses finally to Bergamo: “The river was too strong at that point for a direct crossing, so the boat had to move diagonally, alternately fighting and following the current.” Renzo’s flight from his village has proceeded in the same manner, and I presume will continue in the same vein. Great chapter ❤️
The forest painted by Manzoni/Renzo's words seems much denser and more frightening than in the visual representations!
Does Renzo not realize how dangerous it might be to send home for money etc.? letting them know where he is, and Don R. and his spies also?
Does he really have the patience to accept being called a "blockhead"?
So many new questions, and I'm still stuck many chapters back on the promise that Renzo himself is doing Don R's work for him, bringing himself back into his sights.
As we read of his expectations of salvation once reunited with his cousin, I was prepared for Renzo’s disappointment. Turns out that Bartolo is a prince; empathetic, generous and loving to his cousin. Humble as well putting up with the “cloth-head” moniker. Now I’m apprehensive that “cloth-head” Renzo’s temperament will get him into trouble. (Penman translation)
"Even before he could call her "mother" she had welcomed him into her language and her heart..." I wondered about the word "language" in this line. Does Agnese speak a different dialect? Or is this a metaphorical language, that she speaks with him as if he is her son rather than a friend of her daughter's? Either way, is this meant to forward Manzoni's theme of or efforts toward a common Italian language?
I love the divine providence in Renzo’s head; surely the root of the word implies provision- a comforting notion that the divine ‘takes care’/ ie provides for us when we can’t figure things out for ourselves. Without Google Maps Renzo walks towards the river.
About providence: everyone used to be told in school it's the novel's main character, remnants of a society where religion affected every aspect of life, including public school education. Whether teachers still present this decade-old interpretation, I'll ask my daughter.
Last sentence: i would have translated differently: "And it truly was Providence, because we are about to see how much Renzo COULD COUNT ON THE belongings and the money he had left at home." Manzoni is more ambiguous about whether Renzo will eventually get his stuff.
I see a lot of practical religious uses (as well as the usual impractical bits and bobs). This is my kind of religious novel! The way On the Waterfront has my kind of priest (RIP Karl Malden).
So far, I don't see much Divine Providence at work in the novel. Renzo uses his wits to escape trouble (after stumbling into it). I did think it was a bit miraculous he found the river, but that's because I'm directionally challenged and probably would have missed it. Also, he seems to especially give credit to God for helping him find a job, but we were told from the very beginning that his cousin had been long suggesting that he work with him.
Thank you for the video!
I too see more of a suggestion that it's human beings who muck things up, or save the day ... but if Renzo and Lucia ever come out of this enormous mess intact, I may have to credit Divine Providence....
There is something providential happening when Renzo hears the sounds of the river Adda....."It's the Adda!" he exclaimed. It was like finding a long-lost friend, a brother, a savior......". He is able to go on his way like a new man.
This is a chapter in which Manzoni is a great advocate of the power of prayer. When Lorenzo is in a state of fear, he restores his equanimity by reciting prayers for the dead.
Maybe the role of Providence is just this. Once when I visited Chartres Cathedral, one of Europe's finest Gothic cathedrals that has endured in its current form pretty much intact through the Jacobins' Cult of Reason and two world wars, we enjoyed a wonderful tour and explanation of the magnificent structure and stained glass by a distinguished Oxford Don. At one pint he stopped and pointed at a glass fronted cabinet that we could not access because it happened to be obstructed by scaffolding. It was obscured by darkness; seemingly, it was attracting no interest. He said that in that display was the Virgin Mary's veil. Then he added, go ahead and smirk, but people's' belief that that cloth is the Virgin's original and genuine veil is the reason this edifice we've been enjoying was built and maintained, the reason it exists, for this cathedral is a monument to that sacred object.
Enzo's struggle to pray before bed made me smile. When I was growing up religious, praying before bed was such a challenge for me. For some reason, like swallowing a toad. I could hardly bear to do it.
“They call us baggiani, blockheads...how come it hasn’t changed? So far it hasn’t. Maybe with time. Maybe with the next generation...”. I think not. A poignant description of the age-old challenges of the immigrant and anyone considered to be other.
Renzo is full into his hero’s journey--entering a forest that repels him, where “The trees in the distance looked like strange, twisted monsters.” Struggling with the “undefined horror that his spirit had been fighting for hours...on the verge of losing his mind, but frightened most of all by his own fear.” But he pulls through to then calmly ponder what to do. And what a night he spends in that dilapidated hut on a bed prepared by Providence, “On what was supposed to have been the fifth night of marriage!” It’s all so symbolic, and even more so in the manner he crosses finally to Bergamo: “The river was too strong at that point for a direct crossing, so the boat had to move diagonally, alternately fighting and following the current.” Renzo’s flight from his village has proceeded in the same manner, and I presume will continue in the same vein. Great chapter ❤️
"Better to sleep in a tree than in a prison."
The forest painted by Manzoni/Renzo's words seems much denser and more frightening than in the visual representations!
Does Renzo not realize how dangerous it might be to send home for money etc.? letting them know where he is, and Don R. and his spies also?
Does he really have the patience to accept being called a "blockhead"?
So many new questions, and I'm still stuck many chapters back on the promise that Renzo himself is doing Don R's work for him, bringing himself back into his sights.
As we read of his expectations of salvation once reunited with his cousin, I was prepared for Renzo’s disappointment. Turns out that Bartolo is a prince; empathetic, generous and loving to his cousin. Humble as well putting up with the “cloth-head” moniker. Now I’m apprehensive that “cloth-head” Renzo’s temperament will get him into trouble. (Penman translation)
"Even before he could call her "mother" she had welcomed him into her language and her heart..." I wondered about the word "language" in this line. Does Agnese speak a different dialect? Or is this a metaphorical language, that she speaks with him as if he is her son rather than a friend of her daughter's? Either way, is this meant to forward Manzoni's theme of or efforts toward a common Italian language?
I love the divine providence in Renzo’s head; surely the root of the word implies provision- a comforting notion that the divine ‘takes care’/ ie provides for us when we can’t figure things out for ourselves. Without Google Maps Renzo walks towards the river.
About providence: everyone used to be told in school it's the novel's main character, remnants of a society where religion affected every aspect of life, including public school education. Whether teachers still present this decade-old interpretation, I'll ask my daughter.
Last sentence: i would have translated differently: "And it truly was Providence, because we are about to see how much Renzo COULD COUNT ON THE belongings and the money he had left at home." Manzoni is more ambiguous about whether Renzo will eventually get his stuff.
I see a lot of practical religious uses (as well as the usual impractical bits and bobs). This is my kind of religious novel! The way On the Waterfront has my kind of priest (RIP Karl Malden).