So far the English sense of "imbroglio" seems apt enough -- all in all pretty comical -- so far, anyhow.
And so much so that what struck me most today were two small moments --
First, Don Abbondio's "My, how suspicous the world has become" -- bringing to mind the way I feel now whenever I see some amazing image on facebook or the like, whether of unlikely creatures or light shows or weather systems or whatever, let alone political alt-facts, and I have to ask myself (and google) is this real or faked or made by a bot? (You mean the world has been suspicious all along and thinks it's something new?)
And then the narrator's moment of charming interruption, "In the midst of all this pandemonium, I cannot resist pausing for a moment of reflection..."
The word doesn't actually appear in the chapter, but is rather a general description of it: La notte degli imbrogli. The night of imbroglios doesn't land very nicely on the ear -- which is the problem of focusing too much on a single word -- and I wanted something catchy, so I call it the Night of Trials and Tribulations.
It actually does appear in tomorrow's section of the chapter, in the middle of Cristoforo's monologue: "ma era la notte degl'imbrogli e de' sotterfugi" to underline that even Lucia was remorseful of not revealing what went on that night.
My best translation of imbrogliare is to cheat, to fraud. A sotterfugio is a fraud obtained by lying and cheating. The night of frauds and lies doesn't really sound as nice as the chosen translation.
Tangled mess indeed! It turns out that “the idiot” Gervaso and “ducks and drakes” Menico both showed up for their appointed duty and neither blew up the show. Rather it was Lucia, whose heart was never in the wedding by ambush scheme, whose hesitation appears to have been fatal.
Michael, I appreciate your efforts on the word “imbroglio”. Trials and tribulations both.capture the anguish of the characters but for the reader I go along with Catherine and it all seeming pretty wacky.
I almost need a minute by minute timeline as I wondered what plan Agnese and Perpetua were acting under if Menico hadn’t yet delivered Cristoforo’s message.
Ambrogio, the sacristan’s name almost sounds like imbroglio to the non Italian speaker, I picture his rallied mob in black and white charging after Frankenstein with muskets and pitchforks.
I also imagine Laughless with a hint of Earl Grey as he threatens in his accent.
I am enjoying everyone’s comments so much. All I could think was “Where are the Keystone Cops?”. For me this was pure Mack Sennett comedy. (With cliffhanger moments of Perils of Pauline. I can picture the Hollywood silent film now.)
“Although they were all men used to staring danger in the face, they were petrified by a danger they could not see, nearby….”
Even big bad bravis are scared of the unknown!
Contrasting the scene with the bravis freaking out in the house to Don Abbondio freaking out in his room, I wonder if the author is trying to make us see that the two groups have more in common than their outer appearance/professions might suggest.
I'm wondering about the shifts into and out of present tense in today's reading. Assume those are in the original and not the translation? Does Manzoni shift to the present to add tension? For me, the chapter has plenty of tension without them!
"The shadow of the church, and farther ahead, the longer and sharper shadow of the bell tower, cast a dark shape across the illuminated grass plane of the piazza." Sinister description of the church. Foreshadowing? I wonder...
I’m wondering about Lucia as this comedy of errors unfolds with perfect domino effect. She seems passive in the face of Agnese and Renzo’s crazy plans. Yet it’s her disagreement with the whole plan and inability to speak to complete the marriage formula at the right moment that dooms the whole affair, and provokes the chain reaction that wakes up the whole village.
Funniest moment though is provided by Griso, the “false pilgrim,” trying to keep his minions in “orderly retreat rather than a mad flight” as their mission to kidnap Lucia fails: “Like a dog herding pigs, running this way and that after each stray animal...”😂
I am using the audiobook in parallel. Ari Fliakos, the reader is excellent. Michael and Jhumpa Lahiri both contribute. Scenes such as this come to life.
In fall 2021 while visiting Padua, my husband's colleague, a geneticist and novelist quoted this line spontaneously in conversation. I was excited to find it here in the text though my husband could have led me straight to it. Manzoni's lines are definitely still used. I do wish I lived in a time and place when Carneades was expected to be known by most readers.
So far the English sense of "imbroglio" seems apt enough -- all in all pretty comical -- so far, anyhow.
And so much so that what struck me most today were two small moments --
First, Don Abbondio's "My, how suspicous the world has become" -- bringing to mind the way I feel now whenever I see some amazing image on facebook or the like, whether of unlikely creatures or light shows or weather systems or whatever, let alone political alt-facts, and I have to ask myself (and google) is this real or faked or made by a bot? (You mean the world has been suspicious all along and thinks it's something new?)
And then the narrator's moment of charming interruption, "In the midst of all this pandemonium, I cannot resist pausing for a moment of reflection..."
Cheers!
The word doesn't actually appear in the chapter, but is rather a general description of it: La notte degli imbrogli. The night of imbroglios doesn't land very nicely on the ear -- which is the problem of focusing too much on a single word -- and I wanted something catchy, so I call it the Night of Trials and Tribulations.
It actually does appear in tomorrow's section of the chapter, in the middle of Cristoforo's monologue: "ma era la notte degl'imbrogli e de' sotterfugi" to underline that even Lucia was remorseful of not revealing what went on that night.
My best translation of imbrogliare is to cheat, to fraud. A sotterfugio is a fraud obtained by lying and cheating. The night of frauds and lies doesn't really sound as nice as the chosen translation.
You’re right! I spoke too soon. It appears in conjunction with “sotterfugi”, subterfuge
is this the place that translates as "a night of treachery and tricks"? which certainly struck me as perfect
yes that's the one; agree, nice translation, much more faithful than "trials and tribulations"
Tangled mess indeed! It turns out that “the idiot” Gervaso and “ducks and drakes” Menico both showed up for their appointed duty and neither blew up the show. Rather it was Lucia, whose heart was never in the wedding by ambush scheme, whose hesitation appears to have been fatal.
Michael, I appreciate your efforts on the word “imbroglio”. Trials and tribulations both.capture the anguish of the characters but for the reader I go along with Catherine and it all seeming pretty wacky.
I almost need a minute by minute timeline as I wondered what plan Agnese and Perpetua were acting under if Menico hadn’t yet delivered Cristoforo’s message.
Ambrogio, the sacristan’s name almost sounds like imbroglio to the non Italian speaker, I picture his rallied mob in black and white charging after Frankenstein with muskets and pitchforks.
I also imagine Laughless with a hint of Earl Grey as he threatens in his accent.
I am enjoying everyone’s comments so much. All I could think was “Where are the Keystone Cops?”. For me this was pure Mack Sennett comedy. (With cliffhanger moments of Perils of Pauline. I can picture the Hollywood silent film now.)
There IS a silent film, but Italian: http://www.giornatedelcinemamuto.it/en/the-silent-stream-i-promessi-sposi/?fbclid=IwAR0OD9Y-PQ00zF2axua9WJKBQMf-ar6Fn3PmkQavjlV_ObdRTA2tIsxMfRk
This looks amazing! I hope you will one translate the film as well!
This “imbroglio” - opera buffa at it’s best
“Although they were all men used to staring danger in the face, they were petrified by a danger they could not see, nearby….”
Even big bad bravis are scared of the unknown!
Contrasting the scene with the bravis freaking out in the house to Don Abbondio freaking out in his room, I wonder if the author is trying to make us see that the two groups have more in common than their outer appearance/professions might suggest.
I'm wondering about the shifts into and out of present tense in today's reading. Assume those are in the original and not the translation? Does Manzoni shift to the present to add tension? For me, the chapter has plenty of tension without them!
They are in the original and I fought to keep them: they’re Manzoni’s way of depicting the crowd.
Thank you!
"The shadow of the church, and farther ahead, the longer and sharper shadow of the bell tower, cast a dark shape across the illuminated grass plane of the piazza." Sinister description of the church. Foreshadowing? I wonder...
I’m wondering about Lucia as this comedy of errors unfolds with perfect domino effect. She seems passive in the face of Agnese and Renzo’s crazy plans. Yet it’s her disagreement with the whole plan and inability to speak to complete the marriage formula at the right moment that dooms the whole affair, and provokes the chain reaction that wakes up the whole village.
Funniest moment though is provided by Griso, the “false pilgrim,” trying to keep his minions in “orderly retreat rather than a mad flight” as their mission to kidnap Lucia fails: “Like a dog herding pigs, running this way and that after each stray animal...”😂
P126 Sweeping transition from the moonlit church square to a panorama of the whole village.
The sacristan scrambling down a wooden ladder, britches tucked under his arm ...
"The braver and more curious go downstairs to grab their pitchforks and muskets and run towards the sound. Still others wait to see."
So hard to stop in the middle of this fantastic pandemonium!! Until tomorrow!
I am using the audiobook in parallel. Ari Fliakos, the reader is excellent. Michael and Jhumpa Lahiri both contribute. Scenes such as this come to life.
Tempting! Thanks for the rec.
I had the same question about the tense shifts. They add a breathlessness, an immediacy to the telling, like a story within a story. I love them.
Almost like key changes in music as the slapstick unfolds.
"Carneades! Now, who in the world was he?”
In fall 2021 while visiting Padua, my husband's colleague, a geneticist and novelist quoted this line spontaneously in conversation. I was excited to find it here in the text though my husband could have led me straight to it. Manzoni's lines are definitely still used. I do wish I lived in a time and place when Carneades was expected to be known by most readers.
(APStogehter....I’m catching up!)