I was haunted by the violence of sacrifice evoked: "a sharpened axe prepared to strike"; "axe sliced through the sinews of the [cow's] neck"; "cow was paralyzed"; "hoisted the body"; "sliced through the throat"; "black blood poured out"; "butchered her"; "life was gone." Such visceral violence juxtaposed with the washing of Telemachus "rub[bing] his skin with oil" and "dress[ing] him in a "tunic and fine cloak" until he "emerged" with "looks like a god's" is unsettling in its implicit evocation of hierarchical value regarding life, living, and worth. Perhaps, the unsettling nature of who "qualifies" as a "god" (god-worthy?) in today's world, has left me a bit sensitive?
The religious rituals in the Iliad and the Odyssey, including the sacrifices, are among my favorite parts of the poems. There is something so primal, weirdly familiar yet also strange about them. My reaction comes from a very deep place. These scenes contribute to my feeling of primal connection to whoever it was composed the poems and the audience. Their inimitable authenticity as relics of our bygone cultural ancestors. Emily Wilson renders them beautifully here, and the unsparing, ironic beauty of the bloody rituals is, I think, a litmus test for a translation of the Iliad and the Odyssey. In this translation, they are splendid!
I agree about Wilson's rendering. Having had the benefit of visiting Sounion and other ancient Greek sites, there are many altars for the bloody rituals. But I also understand the squeamishness.
i was also struck by this. up to this point, there have been many acts of violence mentioned, but all (nearly all?) have been told abstractly or indirectly. such an evocative and powerful juxtaposition that makes the stories of war and betrayal more unsettling.
Can’t help thinking of this image and how it recalls the sacrifice, as in slaughter, of Iphigenia, a killing supervised by her father to appease the gods and get the winds to blow their ships toward Troy.
"sliced through the sinews" sure is visceral, figuratively and literally! It's more poetic than a couple other translations I checked, which are much more matter-of-fact in their description.
Also it seems that the cow was only paralyzed at first, not really dead. It is not until another person sticks a knife in its neck artery and the "black blood" comes out that the cow really dies.
One of the many interesting things about reading the Odyssey (and Illiad) is playing the comparative culture game. The Hebrew Scriptures are filled with parallel scenes. Check out Leviticus for long clinical descriptions of animal sacrifice, and the priests had no hesitation about applying animal blood to themselves. (they don't teach these in Sunday school!)
for the record, he did sacrifice Issac, although he seemed prepared to do so. Pretty clear that first child sacrifice was common and that the animal sacrifice was in part a substitution.
I thought this cow sacrifice was startlingly visual, compared to other translations I've read. I think the violence of animal sacrifice seems intense to modern humans because people don't live on farms where animals are "sacrificed" any more. But as a child I witnessed the killing of chickens fairly regularly. To most humans in most of human history, the killing of an animal with an ax would not be shocking.
What makes it "different" is the gilding of the horns of the heifer, and the special way that the thigh bones are roasted for the gods. That is just plain weird: laying two layers of fat onto the bones, or something? then just eating the rest? Apparently the gods love the fragrance of burning meat. I have to say I like it pretty good myself.
I wonder if the gilded horns and the skull were burned too, or if the gold was retrieved after the sacrifice.
I also love the pouring of the wine on the ground. I went to a funeral once where we all poured Bud Lite on the ground, as the dead person had been a regular consumer of Bud Lite. It was not intended for the gods, but for my dead cousin Nora.
14He led forward the bull of sin offering. Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the bull of sin offering, 15and it was slaughtered. Moses took the blood and with his finger put some on each of the horns of the altar, cleansing the altar; then he poured out the blood at the base of the altar. Thus he consecrated it in order to make expiation upon it. 16Moses then took all the fat that was about the entrails, and the protuberance of the liver, and the two kidneys and their fat, and turned them into smoke on the altar. 17The rest of the bull, its hide, its flesh, and its dung, he put to the fire outside the camp—as the LORD had commanded Moses. 18Then he brought forward the ram of burnt offering. Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the ram’s head, 19and it was slaughtered. Moses dashed the blood against all sides of the altar. 20The ram was cut up into sections and Moses turned the head, the sections, and the suet into smoke on the altar; 21Moses washed the entrails and the legs with water and turned all of the ram into smoke. That was a burnt offering for a pleasing odor, an offering by fire to the LORD—as the LORD had commanded Moses.
And let’s be fair, which system is more humane. Taking a small portion of the stock you raised, cared for, and rely on and sacrificing them in an acknowledgment that much of what we experience in life is based on fate (god ect…) or our system of mass slaughter of animals away from consumers? Not arguing for the ritual animal sacrifice, just pointing out moderns shouldn’t be to quick to call past practices barbaric. (Not that people here were doing that. But I hear those types of comments a lot in reference to ancient history )
In Book 3 Orestes' murder of his mother Clytemnestra to avenge her murder of his father Agamemnon haunts the Telemachus and other characters of the Odyssey. In Aeschylus' backstory in the 5th century BC play Oresteia, in "The Eumenides," the final play of the Oresteia trilogy, Orestes is not just lionized for avenging his father's murder by his mother. He is tried by a jury of Athenians with Athena acting as judge. Even the gods must submit to the verdict as the play's theme is the primacy of the rule of law over primitive rules governing blood feuds and vengeance and the right of trial by jury. The jury is deadlocked, its votes split evenly, and Athena casts the deciding vote to acquit Orestes. She then placates the angry Furies, deities of vengeance, by giving them a place of honor in Athens as the "Kindly Ones", transfigured into protectors of justice rather than agents of vengeance.
Fascinating that the "tension" between the "rule of law" and "vengeance" is so ancient! Thank you for sharing this literary example! I cross my fingers daily, that "the rule of law [may] forever rule!"
Colm Toibin's book "House of Names" is a great book to read about the Clytemnestra story. After Agamemnon's treatment of her I have always been on her side.
One of my favorite moments in Ancient Greek literature. Interesting to note how in the 200 yr gap (roughly) between the Orestia and the Odyssey the attitudes on vengeance changes. Do you pick up rejection of vengeance in the Odyssey?
I agree it’s fun to watch Athena trick these confident mortals. I’m also struck by how differently the emphasis on Athena’s gaze reads in this translation. Her ordinarily “bright” eyes read less decoratively. Her eyes have purpose. In Book 3: “She looked straight into his eyes.” She’s boring wisdom straight into Telemachus’ soul.
Love the insight that Athena's eyes have purpose, whether "flashing," grey" or "bright" eyed. Her eyes seem to illuminate mixed emotions regarding female power, intelligence, and agency. Another oh-too-ancient tension with continued relevance today. For me, this is part of the fun in watching "Athena trick these confident mortals."
I'm still wondering about this. I mentioned yesterday that Wilson has the poet describing Athena as "bright-eyed" consistently in Book 2 and now in Book 3, save for when Nestor himself refers to her as "gray-eyed." Meanwhile, two other translations that I checked refer to her only as "grey-eyed" in Book 2 and 3. I wonder whether there's significance to this.
She said in the translators note about trying to use different aspects of the traditional repetitive epithets so it’s not always the same and sort of embodies the different suggested characteristics
Possibly, though Wilson consistently (so far) uses bright-eyed, until Menalus refers to Athena as gray-eyed. Other major translation do not refer to her as bright-eyed, at least to this point. That said, I'm leaving Wilson's intro to the end, so she may have an explanation for the choice.
For someone who hasn’t read the Iliad and doesn’t know much Greek ancient history, the amount of names and drama was almost too much. I hung in there, but is that going to be my experience going forward? Don’t say it…. “It’s all Greek to me” ; )
I’m similar to you as i’ve only read the idiot’s guides to the Greek myths. It’s a bit like the bible in places with its name listing and repetition. That’s why reading it in small chunks seems much less onerous than grabbing a mouthful at a time.
I'm with you. I actually recently bought Wilson's Iliad but since this group was coming up, I've been rereading her Odyssey first. But reading more slowly now, and on second reading, I'm struck by how the characters and stories of so many Greek tragedies (plays) seem to be foreshadowed or alluded to in The Odyssey. I had somehow skimmed right by that before.
Same. It reminded me of when my mom goes back to our home country and fills me in on all the gossip and family drama. I cannot keep track! Similarly, I just listened politely and forgot it promptly.
While the Odyssey certainly stands on its own, it is a follow-up to the Illiad and many of the characters referenced show up in the earlier poem. That said, I suspect many (most?) people read the Odyssey first. And I can almost guarantee this won't be your last read. It's just too good
The glossary is really helpful - even though I am familiar with most through thearer productions and opera adaptations of the plays and myths as well as retellings, I frequently check it. Also the notes for each book - read after the day's reading - so good.
The account concerning Agamemnon and Orestes is most certainly a "looking-glass version" of the situation unfolding in The Odyssey. And this translation underlines this relationship by rendering Nestor's conclusion, addressed to Telemachus: "The moral is, you must not stay away/too long, dear boy ,when those proud suitors lurk/inside your house. They may divide your wealth/among themselves and make your journey useless." But is this translation supported by the text? I looked back at previous translations and found the tone more muted: "And this should give you pause my son:/don't stay too long away from home . . ." (Fitzgerald); "dear boy, take care. Don't rove from home too long" (Fagles); and finally, Chapman--the first to translate The Odyssey into English (it is the translation Shakespeare would have read) "But thou, my sonne, too long by no meanes erre." NB: these lines took some effort to identify, because, in each case, the lines are numbered, but in no two cases do the line numbers match! Bottom line: I am really enjoying Wilson's poem, but is it Homer?
I appreciate you rooting through all these versions of The Odyssey, especially given the great variations of how they're numbered. It gives a window into how hard a job making a translation must be.
I mean, was this a little joke? What was a sensitive poet going to do in this brutal world? Rhapsodize? No surprise that the poor guy is dead three lines later, not even felled in a manly battle, but “eaten/by birds.”
The poet is getting into the full-swing of phrase and theme repetition in Book 3, and it's an aspect of the epics and plays that I always enjoy, especially when the epithets refer to a character, or that they change to represent transitions of character. Bright-eyed, gray-eyed, godlike, horse-lord...it always reminds me (though I'm not sure there is a direct connection) of the masked farces that came centuries later, and the character archetypes of Commedia dell'arte even later still.
I’ve also read that these epithets were ways for an oral performer to reset, take a breath as it were, before launching into some new section. I remember noting how often Penelope ends up going to sleep at the end of a section.
"She looked straight into his eyes, / and answered, 'You will work out what to do, / through your own wits and with divine assistance. / The gods have blessed you in your life so far.'"
It's such a shift from the goddess of war in The Iliad, toward wise and nurturing matriarch.
Curious phrase said to Telemachus, "if you really are his [Odysseus'] son" -- to me, there cannot be any doubt so it must be a sign of encouragement/a challenge to T that he must do more to be on his way to becoming someone who reminds one of his father.
these compound descriptors: Wine-dark (so familiar, glad to have it there among the newness); dark-prowed...A strength that is different from our familiar adjectives.
I love Wilson’s word choices. Tonight I was delighted by Menelaus’ epithet at III.168: “ruddy.” It brings to mind boyish cheeks, Santa Claus. A really fun translation and one that, knowing how Menelaus is portrayed in Book IV as opposed to the Iliad and other works, is an excellent bit of setup.
A lot of shouting and crying! And the model husband with a beautiful wife in a lovely home… as if that decade of war and suffering actually had nothing to do with them at all!
Nestor is certainly rich in sons--six "throng around him"--and he lost one in Troy. The family is close. No strife or estrangement or disfavor with the gods. How fortunate he seems compared to his fellow leaders. He had a traumatic childhood, however. When I looked him up, I found a story I did not recall: his father and brothers were all killed by Heracles, while he was being raised elsewhere.
I was haunted by the violence of sacrifice evoked: "a sharpened axe prepared to strike"; "axe sliced through the sinews of the [cow's] neck"; "cow was paralyzed"; "hoisted the body"; "sliced through the throat"; "black blood poured out"; "butchered her"; "life was gone." Such visceral violence juxtaposed with the washing of Telemachus "rub[bing] his skin with oil" and "dress[ing] him in a "tunic and fine cloak" until he "emerged" with "looks like a god's" is unsettling in its implicit evocation of hierarchical value regarding life, living, and worth. Perhaps, the unsettling nature of who "qualifies" as a "god" (god-worthy?) in today's world, has left me a bit sensitive?
Though I like Athena’s line after she gets impatient with rambling Nestor: your speech was good, “now slice up the tongues and pour the wine....”
The religious rituals in the Iliad and the Odyssey, including the sacrifices, are among my favorite parts of the poems. There is something so primal, weirdly familiar yet also strange about them. My reaction comes from a very deep place. These scenes contribute to my feeling of primal connection to whoever it was composed the poems and the audience. Their inimitable authenticity as relics of our bygone cultural ancestors. Emily Wilson renders them beautifully here, and the unsparing, ironic beauty of the bloody rituals is, I think, a litmus test for a translation of the Iliad and the Odyssey. In this translation, they are splendid!
I agree about Wilson's rendering. Having had the benefit of visiting Sounion and other ancient Greek sites, there are many altars for the bloody rituals. But I also understand the squeamishness.
Fwiw, in Shakespeare’s Troilus and Cressida, Nestor comes off as an overly garrulous oldster.
looking for a chance to use this. imagine one will arise-- and soon
i was also struck by this. up to this point, there have been many acts of violence mentioned, but all (nearly all?) have been told abstractly or indirectly. such an evocative and powerful juxtaposition that makes the stories of war and betrayal more unsettling.
Same here! Horrifying.
Can’t help thinking of this image and how it recalls the sacrifice, as in slaughter, of Iphigenia, a killing supervised by her father to appease the gods and get the winds to blow their ships toward Troy.
I was struck by that scene as well.
"sliced through the sinews" sure is visceral, figuratively and literally! It's more poetic than a couple other translations I checked, which are much more matter-of-fact in their description.
Also it seems that the cow was only paralyzed at first, not really dead. It is not until another person sticks a knife in its neck artery and the "black blood" comes out that the cow really dies.
One of the many interesting things about reading the Odyssey (and Illiad) is playing the comparative culture game. The Hebrew Scriptures are filled with parallel scenes. Check out Leviticus for long clinical descriptions of animal sacrifice, and the priests had no hesitation about applying animal blood to themselves. (they don't teach these in Sunday school!)
And Abraham preparing to sacrifice his son Isaac, ugh....
for the record, he did sacrifice Issac, although he seemed prepared to do so. Pretty clear that first child sacrifice was common and that the animal sacrifice was in part a substitution.
I thought this cow sacrifice was startlingly visual, compared to other translations I've read. I think the violence of animal sacrifice seems intense to modern humans because people don't live on farms where animals are "sacrificed" any more. But as a child I witnessed the killing of chickens fairly regularly. To most humans in most of human history, the killing of an animal with an ax would not be shocking.
What makes it "different" is the gilding of the horns of the heifer, and the special way that the thigh bones are roasted for the gods. That is just plain weird: laying two layers of fat onto the bones, or something? then just eating the rest? Apparently the gods love the fragrance of burning meat. I have to say I like it pretty good myself.
I wonder if the gilded horns and the skull were burned too, or if the gold was retrieved after the sacrifice.
I also love the pouring of the wine on the ground. I went to a funeral once where we all poured Bud Lite on the ground, as the dead person had been a regular consumer of Bud Lite. It was not intended for the gods, but for my dead cousin Nora.
Pour one out for the one we lost
Moving story. Thanks.
For comparison Leviticus 8:
14He led forward the bull of sin offering. Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the bull of sin offering, 15and it was slaughtered. Moses took the blood and with his finger put some on each of the horns of the altar, cleansing the altar; then he poured out the blood at the base of the altar. Thus he consecrated it in order to make expiation upon it. 16Moses then took all the fat that was about the entrails, and the protuberance of the liver, and the two kidneys and their fat, and turned them into smoke on the altar. 17The rest of the bull, its hide, its flesh, and its dung, he put to the fire outside the camp—as the LORD had commanded Moses. 18Then he brought forward the ram of burnt offering. Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the ram’s head, 19and it was slaughtered. Moses dashed the blood against all sides of the altar. 20The ram was cut up into sections and Moses turned the head, the sections, and the suet into smoke on the altar; 21Moses washed the entrails and the legs with water and turned all of the ram into smoke. That was a burnt offering for a pleasing odor, an offering by fire to the LORD—as the LORD had commanded Moses.
It goes on like this for some time
So in this case, none of the bull or the ram were consumed.
And let’s be fair, which system is more humane. Taking a small portion of the stock you raised, cared for, and rely on and sacrificing them in an acknowledgment that much of what we experience in life is based on fate (god ect…) or our system of mass slaughter of animals away from consumers? Not arguing for the ritual animal sacrifice, just pointing out moderns shouldn’t be to quick to call past practices barbaric. (Not that people here were doing that. But I hear those types of comments a lot in reference to ancient history )
In Book 3 Orestes' murder of his mother Clytemnestra to avenge her murder of his father Agamemnon haunts the Telemachus and other characters of the Odyssey. In Aeschylus' backstory in the 5th century BC play Oresteia, in "The Eumenides," the final play of the Oresteia trilogy, Orestes is not just lionized for avenging his father's murder by his mother. He is tried by a jury of Athenians with Athena acting as judge. Even the gods must submit to the verdict as the play's theme is the primacy of the rule of law over primitive rules governing blood feuds and vengeance and the right of trial by jury. The jury is deadlocked, its votes split evenly, and Athena casts the deciding vote to acquit Orestes. She then placates the angry Furies, deities of vengeance, by giving them a place of honor in Athens as the "Kindly Ones", transfigured into protectors of justice rather than agents of vengeance.
May the rule of law forever rule!
Fascinating that the "tension" between the "rule of law" and "vengeance" is so ancient! Thank you for sharing this literary example! I cross my fingers daily, that "the rule of law [may] forever rule!"
Colm Toibin's book "House of Names" is a great book to read about the Clytemnestra story. After Agamemnon's treatment of her I have always been on her side.
One of my favorite moments in Ancient Greek literature. Interesting to note how in the 200 yr gap (roughly) between the Orestia and the Odyssey the attitudes on vengeance changes. Do you pick up rejection of vengeance in the Odyssey?
after 1000+ lines of wine drinking, nestor finally suggests bringing out some clear water. get these boys hydrated!!
Do not let the Etsy people or the meme-lords get a hold of “She made her prayer come true all by herself” (Book 3, line 62)
Considering how much Athena gets stuck in, it’s a wonder how much the humans can still balls it all up.
Ha. I starred that line one thousand times.
So did I! Love its ferocity & its reversal of the concept of fate, destiny, immutability. Very, very far from “you go girl!”
I agree it’s fun to watch Athena trick these confident mortals. I’m also struck by how differently the emphasis on Athena’s gaze reads in this translation. Her ordinarily “bright” eyes read less decoratively. Her eyes have purpose. In Book 3: “She looked straight into his eyes.” She’s boring wisdom straight into Telemachus’ soul.
Love the insight that Athena's eyes have purpose, whether "flashing," grey" or "bright" eyed. Her eyes seem to illuminate mixed emotions regarding female power, intelligence, and agency. Another oh-too-ancient tension with continued relevance today. For me, this is part of the fun in watching "Athena trick these confident mortals."
I'm still wondering about this. I mentioned yesterday that Wilson has the poet describing Athena as "bright-eyed" consistently in Book 2 and now in Book 3, save for when Nestor himself refers to her as "gray-eyed." Meanwhile, two other translations that I checked refer to her only as "grey-eyed" in Book 2 and 3. I wonder whether there's significance to this.
She said in the translators note about trying to use different aspects of the traditional repetitive epithets so it’s not always the same and sort of embodies the different suggested characteristics
So far, how Wilson is assigning that particular epithet makes sense to me, but I still wonder why other translators didn't seem to differentiate.
I read this as "grey-eyed" referring to the actual color of her eyes but "bright-eyed" meaning they were lit up with interest/enthusiasm.
Possibly, though Wilson consistently (so far) uses bright-eyed, until Menalus refers to Athena as gray-eyed. Other major translation do not refer to her as bright-eyed, at least to this point. That said, I'm leaving Wilson's intro to the end, so she may have an explanation for the choice.
For someone who hasn’t read the Iliad and doesn’t know much Greek ancient history, the amount of names and drama was almost too much. I hung in there, but is that going to be my experience going forward? Don’t say it…. “It’s all Greek to me” ; )
I’m similar to you as i’ve only read the idiot’s guides to the Greek myths. It’s a bit like the bible in places with its name listing and repetition. That’s why reading it in small chunks seems much less onerous than grabbing a mouthful at a time.
I'm with you. I actually recently bought Wilson's Iliad but since this group was coming up, I've been rereading her Odyssey first. But reading more slowly now, and on second reading, I'm struck by how the characters and stories of so many Greek tragedies (plays) seem to be foreshadowed or alluded to in The Odyssey. I had somehow skimmed right by that before.
Same. It reminded me of when my mom goes back to our home country and fills me in on all the gossip and family drama. I cannot keep track! Similarly, I just listened politely and forgot it promptly.
Wikipedia to the rescue!
While the Odyssey certainly stands on its own, it is a follow-up to the Illiad and many of the characters referenced show up in the earlier poem. That said, I suspect many (most?) people read the Odyssey first. And I can almost guarantee this won't be your last read. It's just too good
The glossary is really helpful - even though I am familiar with most through thearer productions and opera adaptations of the plays and myths as well as retellings, I frequently check it. Also the notes for each book - read after the day's reading - so good.
Yes, I keep flipping to the glossary as well!
The account concerning Agamemnon and Orestes is most certainly a "looking-glass version" of the situation unfolding in The Odyssey. And this translation underlines this relationship by rendering Nestor's conclusion, addressed to Telemachus: "The moral is, you must not stay away/too long, dear boy ,when those proud suitors lurk/inside your house. They may divide your wealth/among themselves and make your journey useless." But is this translation supported by the text? I looked back at previous translations and found the tone more muted: "And this should give you pause my son:/don't stay too long away from home . . ." (Fitzgerald); "dear boy, take care. Don't rove from home too long" (Fagles); and finally, Chapman--the first to translate The Odyssey into English (it is the translation Shakespeare would have read) "But thou, my sonne, too long by no meanes erre." NB: these lines took some effort to identify, because, in each case, the lines are numbered, but in no two cases do the line numbers match! Bottom line: I am really enjoying Wilson's poem, but is it Homer?
I appreciate you rooting through all these versions of The Odyssey, especially given the great variations of how they're numbered. It gives a window into how hard a job making a translation must be.
Yes, the Greek has words for overbearing men in the house! I know hardly any Greek but on Perseus you can load English next to it and click on individual words if you’re curious: https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0135%3Abook%3D3%3Acard%3D276
wow - so cool to see the greek!
“Moreover, when her husband went to Troy,
He left a poet, ordered to protect her.”
I mean, was this a little joke? What was a sensitive poet going to do in this brutal world? Rhapsodize? No surprise that the poor guy is dead three lines later, not even felled in a manly battle, but “eaten/by birds.”
Yes I want to know more about this poet eaten by birds!
As a poet, I felt this.
“Godlike” Telemachus. How quickly the frustrated boy grows up!
The poet is getting into the full-swing of phrase and theme repetition in Book 3, and it's an aspect of the epics and plays that I always enjoy, especially when the epithets refer to a character, or that they change to represent transitions of character. Bright-eyed, gray-eyed, godlike, horse-lord...it always reminds me (though I'm not sure there is a direct connection) of the masked farces that came centuries later, and the character archetypes of Commedia dell'arte even later still.
I’ve also read that these epithets were ways for an oral performer to reset, take a breath as it were, before launching into some new section. I remember noting how often Penelope ends up going to sleep at the end of a section.
I've read that, too, as well as the repetitions being anchors to help the narrator remember where they're going in the telling of it.
Thanks. The foreword discusses this some too.
"Wine-dark"
I love this passage:
"She looked straight into his eyes, / and answered, 'You will work out what to do, / through your own wits and with divine assistance. / The gods have blessed you in your life so far.'"
It's such a shift from the goddess of war in The Iliad, toward wise and nurturing matriarch.
Curious phrase said to Telemachus, "if you really are his [Odysseus'] son" -- to me, there cannot be any doubt so it must be a sign of encouragement/a challenge to T that he must do more to be on his way to becoming someone who reminds one of his father.
these compound descriptors: Wine-dark (so familiar, glad to have it there among the newness); dark-prowed...A strength that is different from our familiar adjectives.
I love Wilson’s word choices. Tonight I was delighted by Menelaus’ epithet at III.168: “ruddy.” It brings to mind boyish cheeks, Santa Claus. A really fun translation and one that, knowing how Menelaus is portrayed in Book IV as opposed to the Iliad and other works, is an excellent bit of setup.
I peeked ahead and tomorrow in book iv he’s yelling
A lot of shouting and crying! And the model husband with a beautiful wife in a lovely home… as if that decade of war and suffering actually had nothing to do with them at all!
Nestor is certainly rich in sons--six "throng around him"--and he lost one in Troy. The family is close. No strife or estrangement or disfavor with the gods. How fortunate he seems compared to his fellow leaders. He had a traumatic childhood, however. When I looked him up, I found a story I did not recall: his father and brothers were all killed by Heracles, while he was being raised elsewhere.
Athena flies away and Nestor seizing Telemachus by the hand says
"Dear boy; I am now Sure you will be a hero
since the gods are on your side
at your young age."
It takes a God to be a hero! We must take note.